2017 Draft Discussion III

[dougdirt]

Again, Statcast is different from pitch f/x, yes?

Yes. Trackman is using radar to track pitches. Pitch F/X is using a triangulated camera system.

To be clear, Statcast uses multiple systems. The pitching and exit velocity/hit distance data is via Trackman, which uses radar. The fielding stuff, tracking of player movement, is a different system. Both are under the "Statcast" umbrella, but are not the same system.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Yes. Trackman is using radar to track pitches. Pitch F/X is using a triangulated camera system.

To be clear, Statcast uses multiple systems. The pitching and exit velocity/hit distance data is via Trackman, which uses radar. The fielding stuff, tracking of player movement, is a different system. Both are under the "Statcast" umbrella, but are not the same system.

And they're not pitch f/x, right?

Because if they're not, then the RPM should stand as is, yes?

[dougdirt]

And they're not pitch f/x, right?

Because if they're not, then the RPM should stand as is, yes?

Pitch F/X used RPM's, too. They just weren't calculated the same way, and the numbers aren't going to be comparable. Quoting 2015 numbers from MLB is giving you Pitch F/X RPM's. Making the comparison to RPM's from the two systems isn't a good one.

Now, it's possible that the numbers you've quoted were from trackman, but it's unlikely, because 2015 was the year in which not all parks had Trackman installed until August. MLB didn't switch over to fully reporting full Trackman data until 2017 began. They were still giving Pitch F/X stuff through last season for some things.

[19braves77]

Reading that Braves may have pre arrange draft deal with Kenton Hiura

[Bourgeois Zee]

Pitch F/X used RPM's, too. They just weren't calculated the same way, and the numbers aren't going to be comparable. Quoting 2015 numbers from MLB is giving you Pitch F/X RPM's. Making the comparison to RPM's from the two systems isn't a good one.

Now, it's possible that the numbers you've quoted were from trackman, but it's unlikely, because 2015 was the year in which not all parks had Trackman installed until August. MLB didn't switch over to fully reporting full Trackman data until 2017 began. They were still giving Pitch F/X stuff through last season for some things.

Those numbers didn't come from pitch f/x as both the article and the snippets I provided showed. They came from Stat Cast. Which, if I'm not mistaken, is quite a bit more likely to be accurate.

[dougdirt]

Those numbers didn't come from pitch f/x as both the article and the snippets I provided showed. They came from Stat Cast. Which, if I'm not mistaken, is quite a bit more likely to be accurate.

You provided snippets describing the difference between the systems. You didn't provide a link at all with the numbers you provided.

And just to re-iterate again, Statcast was using Pitch F/X for past data. The data from Fangraphs you cited is from Trackman. Given that the data you cited was from 2015, it's far more likely that it was Pitch F/X RPM's than Trackman RPM's because it wasn't until August of 2015 that every stadium in MLB had the Trackman system up and running. But, even if it were Trackman data, it's incomplete data because, as noted, not every stadium had it installed for the entire, even majority of the season.

I think there's a disconnect here. Statcast is just the umbrella term used for the data provided. Current statcast uses two systems to measure things. Trackman for pitches and exit velocity/hit distance, then a second system that tracks player movement on the field. That "statcast" provided the data does not mean that the data is from the same source in 2015 as it was in 2016 or in 2017.

[cincyinco]

BA says they will have 1 more mock later today before the draft.. so stay tuned.

[Bourgeois Zee]

You provided snippets describing the difference between the systems. You didn't provide a link at all with the numbers you provided.

And just to re-iterate again, Statcast was using Pitch F/X for past data. The data from Fangraphs you cited is from Trackman. Given that the data you cited was from 2015, it's far more likely that it was Pitch F/X RPM's than Trackman RPM's because it wasn't until August of 2015 that every stadium in MLB had the Trackman system up and running. But, even if it were Trackman data, it's incomplete data because, as noted, not every stadium had it installed for the entire, even majority of the season.

I think there's a disconnect here. Statcast is just the umbrella term used for the data provided. Current statcast uses two systems to measure things. Trackman for pitches and exit velocity/hit distance, then a second system that tracks player movement on the field. That "statcast" provided the data does not mean that the data is from the same source in 2015 as it was in 2016 or in 2017.

I remain confused. In a Fangraphs' article on the switch-over, it reads:

the conversion from PITCHF/x to Statcast has been completed, and all the tracking data in Major League stadiums is now coming from the Statcast system.(emphasis mine)

If there's a conversion from one to the other, that would mean pitch f/x wasn't/ isn't a part of statcast, but separate from it.

Not only that, in the article I linked to (and quoted from), it reads:

The first season of Statcast™ is in the books, and we've learned a lot in a short period of time.

That was 2015. If that was the first season of Statcast, it would necessarily have been a different system than pitch f/x, right? (As that system's been around since 2006.) In the StatCast wiki, it reads:

The PITCHf/x system, first used in the 2006 MLB postseason, is a camera-based system that can measure the trajectory, speed, spin, break, and location of a pitched ball. This provides objective data that can be used in combination with statistical outcomes to better predict the effectiveness of a pitcher or batter.[4]

Statcast was first unveiled at the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference. It won the Alpha Award for best Analytics Innovation/Technology at the 2015 conference.[5] The system saw limited use during the 2014 MLB season, as it was tested in three stadiums.[6] It was installed in all 30 Major League ballparks beginning with the 2015 season.[7][8] This technology integrates doppler radar and high definition video to measure the speed, acceleration, and other aspects for every player on the field.[9][10]

It would seem these are two different things. (Though, of course, I could be wrong.)

[dougdirt]

Yes, you remain confused.

I don't know how else to explain it other than how I already have.

Look at the fangraphs article you linked. Dave talks about how he pulled data from April 2016 that was coming from the Pitch F/X system. Trackman is in it's first year of full usage around MLB in terms of spitting out the data that we can get access to.

Statcast is just the umbrella name. Statcast itself is not a system at all. It's just a brand name for systems they use to give them data.

[DBFROMNVA]

Rumored Boras clients Gore, Lewis, Kendall, Romero & #38 Burns.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Yes, you remain confused.

I don't know how else to explain it other than how I already have.

Look at the fangraphs article you linked. Dave talks about how he pulled data from April 2016 that was coming from the Pitch F/X system. Trackman is in it's first year of full usage around MLB in terms of spitting out the data that we can get access to.

Statcast is just the umbrella name. Statcast itself is not a system at all. It's just a brand name for systems they use to give them data.

Explain it to me. Use small words because I'm obviously not getting it.

From the fangraphs' article:

This year, however, with Statcast officially replacing PITCHF/x in the big leagues, the data being pulled publicly is now from the Trackman radar.

This sentence states that Statcast replaces PITCHF/x. Not replaces it within their measurements, but replaces it as a whole.

In the MLB article, they discuss the "first year of StatCast."

From a 2014 Beyond the Boxscore (emphasis mine):

How It Works: StatCast is actually a combination of two systems. The first, produced by TrackMan, tracks the trajectory of the ball as it is pitched, hit, and thrown. TrackMan's system is based on Doppler radar and will be discussed more in the next section. The second, which tracks the players, is the brainchild of ChyronHego and uses two camera arrays spaced about 15 meters apart to capture stereoscopic video. This allows StatCast to judge three-dimensional distance to a player similar to the human visual system. Not much is known yet about the process that allows them to produce videos like this, but the combination of video and radar is memory-intensive; terabytes of raw signals will be produced for every game.

How To Get It: Before the 2014 season, StatCast was installed in Citi Field, Miller Park, and Target Field; MLBAM plans to roll it out to the other 27 ballparks by the 2015 season. For now, the only things available are some tantalizing video clips, but MLBAM CEO Bob Bowman said in a March interview, "The goal is to put the product out this year, then get to all 30 parks, then release the data in unvarnished form in 2015."

Since the article was from 2015, it would hold that the data came from Trackman and StatCast.

Unless I'm missing something.

[dougdirt]

I don't have time to do that over the next week.

[podgejeff_]

Reading that Braves may have pre arrange draft deal with Kenton Hiura

What do you think about that? You ok with the budget game they're playing or would you rather pick up one of the many quality guys at that level that will surely fall to the Braves. I mean the Braves are assuredly going to get one of McKay, Greene, Wright, Lewis, and Gore falling to them.