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Thread: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

  1. #241
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    You data is flawed. For as much fun as the World Cup is to watch, they are hardly the best teams. Even the best WC teams are flawed when you break down their roster.

    If you want to find out what people find enjoyable about a soccer game, watch the EPL on weekend mornings? Sometimes they can be boring and then all of a sudden they can be great. The Champions League is winding down, catch one of those games. Most EPL games are played in the AM over here, so you have your whole day ahead of you. I do it while I fold laundry or clean up from breakfast.
    Fine. What's your data say? Why are you saying my data's wrong but not correcting it with what you consider to be right?

    How many shots per goal does an MLS team get? It appears to me that 6 shots on goal per game is about right for MLS:

    https://www.rslsoapbox.com/stats-ana...ooting-success


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  3. #242
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Fine. What's your data say? Why are you saying my data's wrong but not correcting it with what you consider to be right?

    How many shots per goal does an MLS team get? It appears to me that 6 shots on goal per game is about right for MLS:

    https://www.rslsoapbox.com/stats-ana...ooting-success
    WC teams are far from the best teams in soccer. They are flawed teams that often times put their best 11 guys on the pitch regardless of position. When you are dealing with the national team, your three best players may play the same position. You may have two great center backs but zero good right backs. They may play together a few times a year and then play on their club team.

    Shots on goal are the same thing as scoring chances. There is so much that goes on throughout a game that determine whether a team gets a scoring chance or not. You can have great passes that are thwarted by outstanding defensive plays. You can have through balls that are just a little bit too far. There are so many different things in the game of soccer to break in down into the simple terms that you want.

    I know you aren't going to change, but tune on NBCSports channel Sat/Sun mornings to watch some Premier League soccer.

  4. #243
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    They started off with MLS dreams and then got MLS acceptance, but what happens when fans are no longer happy with just being in the MLS and they demand winning?
    I'd say they're there. I don't expect fans to get gnarly about the team any time, but winning/making the playoffs is a reasonable demand. As someone who is nominally a fan of an MLS original, I can tell you there's zero magic about just being in the league. The playoffs are easy to make and there's a large number of teams that are clueless or just don't care. FCC should be hell-bent on getting to the front of the pack.

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    WC teams are far from the best teams in soccer. They are flawed teams that often times put their best 11 guys on the pitch regardless of position. When you are dealing with the national team, your three best players may play the same position. You may have two great center backs but zero good right backs. They may play together a few times a year and then play on their club team.

    Shots on goal are the same thing as scoring chances. There is so much that goes on throughout a game that determine whether a team gets a scoring chance or not. You can have great passes that are thwarted by outstanding defensive plays. You can have through balls that are just a little bit too far. There are so many different things in the game of soccer to break in down into the simple terms that you want.

    I know you aren't going to change, but tune on NBCSports channel Sat/Sun mornings to watch some Premier League soccer.
    Trolling is all he wants to get out of soccer.
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  5. #244
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I think FCC's challenge will come in a few years. What they have built over the past few seasons is pretty phenomenal. But once the climb is complete, how do they sustain the success they have had with the fan base. They started off with MLS dreams and then got MLS acceptance, but what happens when fans are no longer happy with just being in the MLS and they demand winning?
    That's fair. After the new MLS smell wears off fans will be wanting more than just that. Playoffs - and soon - will be important. If they do not advance in the playoffs very far after a few years fans may start seeing them in the same light that they do all the other local teams who just make the playoffs and go no further. They won't be "bad fans" if their interest wanes if that happens. The name of the game is to win it all or if you can't, at least be very competitive.
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    There's some real irony in a guy griping about soccer being boring on a baseball board.

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  8. #246
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    WC teams are far from the best teams in soccer. They are flawed teams that often times put their best 11 guys on the pitch regardless of position. When you are dealing with the national team, your three best players may play the same position. You may have two great center backs but zero good right backs. They may play together a few times a year and then play on their club team.

    Shots on goal are the same thing as scoring chances. There is so much that goes on throughout a game that determine whether a team gets a scoring chance or not. You can have great passes that are thwarted by outstanding defensive plays. You can have through balls that are just a little bit too far. There are so many different things in the game of soccer to break in down into the simple terms that you want.

    I know you aren't going to change, but tune on NBCSports channel Sat/Sun mornings to watch some Premier League soccer.
    We have no disagreement.

    As for watching soccer on tv, that's nothing new. It's on ESN, the soccer channel...I've seen it. Scoring chances are rare

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BillDoran View Post
    There's some real irony in a guy griping about soccer being boring on a baseball board.
    I'm not griping. It doesn't bother me. I don't spend my time watching it for that very reason. As was stated earlier, baseball has a scoring chance on every pitch, that's maybe 200 chances a game per team. Big difference

  9. #247
    Are we not men? Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    We have no disagreement.

    As for watching soccer on tv, that's nothing new. It's on ESN, the soccer channel...I've seen it. Scoring chances are rare

    - - - Updated - - -



    I'm not griping. It doesn't bother me. I don't spend my time watching it for that very reason. As was stated earlier, baseball has a scoring chance on every pitch, that's maybe 200 chances a game per team. Big difference
    You do realize that there are plenty of times in a soccer game where a player can have a scoring opportunity that doesn't count as a Shot on Goal. Shots on Goal only count when they are actually within the frame of the goal. A player can take a shot and just miss wide, or hit a post, or a defender could make a brilliant tackle as last defender where it likely would have been a shot without the tackle. Those are all examples of scoring opportunities that wouldn't show up as shots on goal. Likewise, if a defender deflects the ball in to score an own goal, you can actually have a situation where a team can have a goal scored without any Shots on Goal. Shots on Goal is one measure of offensive output, but it is not the only measure by which to judge the quality of the soccer being played. Relying on that alone will only ever give you an incomplete picture. It's like judging a baseball game solely on how many hits there were, while totally ignoring the amazing pitching and defense that prevented those hits from being turned into runs.
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  10. #248
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    You do realize that there are plenty of times in a soccer game where a player can have a scoring opportunity that doesn't count as a Shot on Goal. Shots on Goal only count when they are actually within the frame of the goal. A player can take a shot and just miss wide, or hit a post, or a defender could make a brilliant tackle as last defender where it likely would have been a shot without the tackle. Those are all examples of scoring opportunities that wouldn't show up as shots on goal. Likewise, if a defender deflects the ball in to score an own goal, you can actually have a situation where a team can have a goal scored without any Shots on Goal. Shots on Goal is one measure of offensive output, but it is not the only measure by which to judge the quality of the soccer being played. Relying on that alone will only ever give you an incomplete picture. It's like judging a baseball game solely on how many hits there were, while totally ignoring the amazing pitching and defense that prevented those hits from being turned into runs.
    I consider shots on goal that just miss analogous to incomplete passes and I don't get excited about them either.

  11. #249
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I consider shots on goal that just miss analogous to incomplete passes and I don't get excited about them either.
    As Yachtzee explained,
    Shots on goal are different from shot attempts, which are shots that are not on target (including shots that hit the post or cross bar- near misses that typically draw a strong reaction from spectators).
    Scoring opportunities are a broader term to describe an attack that yields either a shot on goal, a shot attempt, or a pass or dribble that gets the attacking team into a quality scoring position.
    It is a fact that some matches yield very few (<5) scoring opportunities and I agree with you that those contests are boring.
    But boring games are an occasional blight for every sport.
    Also, as with any sport, the reasons for the paucity of quality scoring opportunities are important. If it is because the teams are evenly marched and they are being disciplined and tactical, that is different than when the teams are playing poorly.

    Cincinnati FC is an expansion team, and they are at a talent disadvantage. They are trying to competitive, so they are playing tactically right now, with more of an emphasis on defense rather than a balance of attack and defense.
    But give them a chance to adjust their playing style and their roster, and build their confidence and score and win more often and they will earn your trust and support. Growing your trust in a new team is a special thing for people, like raising a child.
    But not everyone likes immature teams, they only trust competent, well financed successes.

  12. #250
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I consider shots on goal that just miss analogous to incomplete passes and I don't get excited about them either.
    Well, it appears that you've already settled into some preconceived notions about the sport, so there's really no point in furthering the discussion. Your statement here is tantamount to going into the Old Red Guard and posting that Batting Average is the only stat you'll consider when evaluating hitters. Most of the people here have heard this tired argument over and over from anti-soccer folks for years. If you want to continue down this path, maybe you should start your own thread titled "What's so great about soccer?" and have at it with anyone who wants to venture in. But this thread was started to have a serious discussion about FC Cincinnati and MLS in general.

    Now on the other hand, if you have an open mind and a legitimate interest in finding out more about soccer, there are a number of people out there, maybe even some on this very board, who have access to season tickets and might be willing to invite you to a game if you wanted to experience it first hand. That's the thing about soccer fans in the US. I've met quite a few who are more than happy to find someone a ticket and bring them along, even a stranger, if they have an open mind about the sport and just want to see what it's all about. If not, then just stick to your sports and leave us to enjoy all the soccer for ourselves.
    Wear gaudy colors, or avoid display. Lay a million eggs or give birth to one. The fittest shall survive, yet the unfit may live. Be like your ancestors or be different. We must repeat!

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  14. #251
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Galaxy got VARd.

  15. #252
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    Well, it appears that you've already settled into some preconceived notions about the sport, so there's really no point in furthering the discussion. Your statement here is tantamount to going into the Old Red Guard and posting that Batting Average is the only stat you'll consider when evaluating hitters. Most of the people here have heard this tired argument over and over from anti-soccer folks for years. If you want to continue down this path, maybe you should start your own thread titled "What's so great about soccer?" and have at it with anyone who wants to venture in. But this thread was started to have a serious discussion about FC Cincinnati and MLS in general.

    Now on the other hand, if you have an open mind and a legitimate interest in finding out more about soccer, there are a number of people out there, maybe even some on this very board, who have access to season tickets and might be willing to invite you to a game if you wanted to experience it first hand. That's the thing about soccer fans in the US. I've met quite a few who are more than happy to find someone a ticket and bring them along, even a stranger, if they have an open mind about the sport and just want to see what it's all about. If not, then just stick to your sports and leave us to enjoy all the soccer for ourselves.
    No preconceived notions at all. I came in with a simple question and the best answer I got was "feel the energy." I can't see setting up parties to watch my team that will likely not score all night.

    By the way, what was the score last night vs San Jose?

  16. #253
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    No preconceived notions at all. I came in with a simple question and the best answer I got was "feel the energy." I can't see setting up parties to watch my team that will likely not score all night.

    By the way, what was the score last night vs San Jose?
    It's something you're just gonna have to adapt to. Best of luck!

    The arrows are clearly pointing in definitive directions, and it is very likely that soccer will surpass baseball in this survey the next time such a poll is taken. Even more telling are the demographics behind those numbers: Only 1% of those polled by Gallup aged 55 or over named soccer as their favorite. But among adults aged 18-34, soccer was the favorite sport of 11%, tying basketball; only 6% of younger adults chose baseball as their favorite sport. Self-defined liberals also showed a greater preference for soccer. Among that political group, the gap between football and soccer was just 15 points.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/filipbo.../#21a443bc3c53

  17. #254
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    By the way, what was the score last night vs San Jose?
    I don't know. I didn't watch it. Did you watch it? I'd love to hear your analysis of the game if you did. If you didn't watch it, again, please feel free to start up a thread called, "What's so great about soccer?" and have at it.

    What I did do last night is that I went to a brewery with my dad, where they had a Columbus Crew watch party, which is my team. The Crew lost 3-1 and there was a lot of controversy in the game involving ref interference and controversial decisions that impacted the outcome of the game. I'm pissed that they lost, but I still had a good time with my dad enjoying some beers and watching a sport that I love.
    Wear gaudy colors, or avoid display. Lay a million eggs or give birth to one. The fittest shall survive, yet the unfit may live. Be like your ancestors or be different. We must repeat!

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  19. #255
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    3rd Road win in a row for the Timbers, this time in Salt Lake.
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