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Thread: Hunter Greene

  1. #286
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    A quick google search shows when Bailey had TJ the first week of May, 2015, Kremchek announced that it would be 9-12 months before a return. He was in a minor league game about a week short of 12 months and in a major league game in just under 15 months. It would be hard for anyone to say the Reds went off Kremchek’s timetable and rushed him back.

    But we are talking about a 19 year old in Hunter Greene, a guy the Reds were limiting to 2-3 innings as a starter for the first two months of his season the year AFTER he was drafted. I don’t think there is much of a chance the Reds rush him. I have seen a lot of Reds minor league pitchers come back from Tommy John, some with success and others with no success at all. But I do not recall ever once hearing a suggestion from anyone that a minor league pitcher was brought back too quickly from TJ.

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  3. #287
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Brent Suter was back rehabbing right at 12 months. (I get it...there are many case studies out there)

    I’m just not seeing enough to believe there is a systemic problem that the Reds rush guys back and Greene is at risk.
    Last edited by kaldaniels; 12-07-2019 at 11:58 PM.

  4. #288
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by redsof72 View Post
    A quick google search shows when Bailey had TJ the first week of May, 2015, Kremchek announced that it would be 9-12 months before a return. He was in a minor league game about a week short of 12 months and in a major league game in just under 15 months. It would be hard for anyone to say the Reds went off Kremchek’s timetable and rushed him back.

    But we are talking about a 19 year old in Hunter Greene, a guy the Reds were limiting to 2-3 innings as a starter for the first two months of his season the year AFTER he was drafted. I don’t think there is much of a chance the Reds rush him. I have seen a lot of Reds minor league pitchers come back from Tommy John, some with success and others with no success at all. But I do not recall ever once hearing a suggestion from anyone that a minor league pitcher was brought back too quickly from TJ.
    They would have brought Bailey back sooner, but they made a concerted effort to have him ready by the opening on the 2016 season and it backfired horribly. Whole thing went from a rush job to a lost year.

    I hope you're right with Greene. Caution would make sense. I can't recall them rushing another MiLB arm after TJ surgery either, but the Reds haven't had many highly rated MiLB arms. Previous TJ kids weren't good enough for most people to follow their rehab schedules and, if memory serves, most of the Reds' notable MiLB pitching injuries have been shoulders.
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    mth123 (12-08-2019)

  6. #289
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by redsof72 View Post
    A quick google search shows when Bailey had TJ the first week of May, 2015, Kremchek announced that it would be 9-12 months before a return. He was in a minor league game about a week short of 12 months and in a major league game in just under 15 months. It would be hard for anyone to say the Reds went off Kremchek’s timetable and rushed him back.

    But we are talking about a 19 year old in Hunter Greene, a guy the Reds were limiting to 2-3 innings as a starter for the first two months of his season the year AFTER he was drafted. I don’t think there is much of a chance the Reds rush him. I have seen a lot of Reds minor league pitchers come back from Tommy John, some with success and others with no success at all. But I do not recall ever once hearing a suggestion from anyone that a minor league pitcher was brought back too quickly from TJ.
    The problem isn't the Reds going off of Kremcheck's plan. The problem seems like maybe it's Kremchek's plan. Go slower.

    Standard has always ben closer to 15 - 18 months. Why try to even recommend 9 to 12 months? There has been plenty of history.
    Last edited by mth123; 12-08-2019 at 02:37 AM.
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    REDREAD (12-09-2019)

  8. #290
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    I don’t think there is a valid criticism of the Reds rushing pitchers back. I am not a doctor and maybe I would have a totally different opinion if I had medical expertise. Cueto was back last year in major league games in almost exactly 12 months. It just seems like a topic that none of us know enough about to really have a qualified opinion. I talk to executives and pitching coaches from other organizations all the time and never once has anyone suggested that the Reds rush guys back from Tommy John. They may criticize the Reds on many other things, but never that.

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    HammerTime (12-09-2019)

  10. #291
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    The problem isn't the Reds going off of Kremcheck's plan. The problem seems like maybe it's Kremchek's plan. Go slower.

    Standard has always ben closer to 15 - 18 months. Why try to even recommend 9 to 12 months? There has been plenty of history.
    Could you point me to a planned 18 month timetable other than a late season injury/surgery where it is known the player will not return the following year?

  11. #292
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I don’t know what normal is though. I’d prefer to be safe of course and take it slow. Yet I remember Doug dying on the hill that Bailey would be back in TEN months.
    What a weird hill to die on given that 10 months would have meant him pitching in big league games when there weren't actual big league games.

    What was more likely was that I was saying he could have been pitching in spring training - which would have been along the lines of what a rehab plan would have been, when some guys were doing plenty of - starting their game rehab at 10-11 months.

    And you can feel free to google the tommy john surgery list and find plenty of guys that did it. And there's plenty of guys that needed a lot longer, too. It's not some one size fits all.

    And here's the thing about the "normal timeline" - it's trash. If a guy has surgery in September, his "normal timeline" is at best going to be, what, 19 months before returning to the big leagues because they don't play games in the winter. But had he had the surgery in June, and had the exact same rehab and everything, he may have been back in 12 months. But because of the timing, the "timeline" says "they played it safe" without any context. Kremchek, ElAttrache, Andrews - all of them have had guys come back in under a year. And all of them have had guys come back two years later, too.

    The Reds drafted Noah Davis in 2018. He had TJ surgery in March of that year. When did he first take the mound? June 22nd. He didn't throw beyond 3 innings until July 28th. That's the most recent guy we've got to look at with how the Reds organization handled a guy coming back from TJ.

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    HammerTime (12-09-2019)

  13. #293
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    What a weird hill to die on given that 10 months would have meant him pitching in big league games when there weren't actual big league games.

    What was more likely was that I was saying he could have been pitching in spring training - which would have been along the lines of what a rehab plan would have been, when some guys were doing plenty of - starting their game rehab at 10-11 months.

    And you can feel free to google the tommy john surgery list and find plenty of guys that did it. And there's plenty of guys that needed a lot longer, too. It's not some one size fits all.

    And here's the thing about the "normal timeline" - it's trash. If a guy has surgery in September, his "normal timeline" is at best going to be, what, 19 months before returning to the big leagues because they don't play games in the winter. But had he had the surgery in June, and had the exact same rehab and everything, he may have been back in 12 months. But because of the timing, the "timeline" says "they played it safe" without any context. Kremchek, ElAttrache, Andrews - all of them have had guys come back in under a year. And all of them have had guys come back two years later, too.

    The Reds drafted Noah Davis in 2018. He had TJ surgery in March of that year. When did he first take the mound? June 22nd. He didn't throw beyond 3 innings until July 28th. That's the most recent guy we've got to look at with how the Reds organization handled a guy coming back from TJ.
    You were saying you thought he would be back in the rotation for the start of the year - which would mean he was pitching in ST games at around 10 months and be back in the rotation at 11 months.

    You are correct in the timeline being artificially extended for many guys due to the offseason.

    I still don’t see how Homer was rushed compared to other guys.

  14. #294
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    I did a quick google and I found a list of major league players who have had TJ surgery. Is there a list somewhere of minor league players who have had TJ surgery? All the search terms I used spit out Hunter Greene's name under "minor league pitchers TJ surgery."

    I did find this interesting page dealing with how pitchers returned after TJ surgery:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...eball_Pitchers
    Last edited by MikeS21; 12-09-2019 at 10:33 AM. Reason: Additional Information Found
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    JustaFan (01-24-2020)

  16. #295
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Hunter Greene
    @HunterGreene17

    No days off ���� Despite my active lifestyle and travels, I still workout EVERYDAY and sometimes twice. Huge thank you ����❤️ to China’s pro guys @PRCBaseballWBC for allowing me to get my armband work and throw in yesterday at their home at Beijing’s Olympic village. 21 degrees! ❄️
    10:02am · 11 Dec 2019


    Video of him long tossing at this link: https://twitter.com/HunterGreene17/s...24076503511040
    Gratitude + Forgiveness = Happiness

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  18. #296
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Hunter Greene
    @HunterGreene17

    Great morning workout with @nunnamaker12 Med Ball Volleyball ����
    8:29am · 5 Jan 2020
    Video at the link: https://twitter.com/HunterGreene17/s...60188228210688
    Gratitude + Forgiveness = Happiness

  19. #297
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    I’m catching Hunter Greene fever guys.

    It’s hard not seeing a guy pitch for 18 months but I think we are going to be rewarded.

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    Edd Roush (01-22-2020),Griffey012 (01-21-2020),Sea Ray (01-26-2020)

  21. #298
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I’m catching Hunter Greene fever guys.

    It’s hard not seeing a guy pitch for 18 months but I think we are going to be rewarded.
    On top of that, he ended the 2018 season pitching very well as an 18 year old in A ball. I am really excited to have the new pitching staff working with him as well.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  22. #299
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    HG starts his throwing program next week: https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/ba...row-next-week/

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  24. #300
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    I guess I am more worried or interested in his workload he gets this year. What will they limit his innings to is very critical IMO. He pitched 68 innings in 2018. I am not sure if I would allow him to do more than 70.


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