Replying to Doug and Griffey’s comments here:
“Or maybe he’s just an 18 year old pitcher”
Why was he rushed to Dayton if he wasn’t ready? Or, even worse, how did the Reds development staff not recognize he’s not ready for Dayton?
“Who sat out his senior year”
Again, why was he rushed to Dayton with this knowledge?
Why does the Reds development staff have so much trouble with pitchers?
What would you say.....ya do here?
REDREAD (05-03-2018)
RTG, can you provide evidence based on things that happened prior to the 2018 season, that show Hunter Greene was not ready to pitch in Dayton? Having hindsight doesn't work here because you're using data points completely unavailable to the people making said decision.
Can you provide evidence he was ready? Sorry, 5 spring training innings don’t count.Originally Posted by dougdirt
What would you say.....ya do here?
It goes back to coddle thy pitchers for me. Err on the side of caution. And if the organization wants to operate counter to that, then it better work. There's no excuse for having a teenage pitcher struggling in A ball. It absolutely calls into question the team's developmental braintrust.
It's great the Reds have Hunter Greene, but is Hunter Greene in the right hands? I can't say with any confidence that he is.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
REDREAD (05-03-2018)
I can not. I'm not claiming he was, though.
The Reds have people paid to get these calls right. Criticism comes with the paycheck when they get it wrong.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
GaiusBallstar (05-03-2018),mth123 (05-03-2018),REDREAD (05-03-2018)
Certainly.
I just feel like there should be something that clearly suggest there was a reason the Reds should have known this was going to happen with the way some people are wording things.
When they sent Jose Siri to Dayton in 2016, that was one of those "are you guys drunk?!" things because there was clear and overwhelming evidence that showed it was very probably he'd have no chance to succeed at that point in time.
Hunter Greene doesn't really have that kind of red flag. Now, maybe you can say "how do we know because he didn't pitch", and sure, there's something there. But if "we don't know" is the response, then I wouldn't be so aggressive with the criticism like they should have absolutely have known.
Also, he's had 3 tough games in a row. And really, the one before today wasn't really that bad if you watched the game.
Can you provide evidence that he wasn't? 8 Low A innings (so far) don't count
Hoosier Red (05-04-2018)
I get it’s a small sample size, but I would like to point out if he had been pitching well it would be more like 16 innings. It took him 55 pitches to go 1.2 innings today.
What would you say.....ya do here?
REDREAD (05-03-2018)
Perhaps it's not the worst thing in the world for an 18 year-old Superman to get a dose of humility. Obviously, we'd all prefer for him to dominate at every level on the way to the Hall of Fame, but it might be okay for him to realize that other guys are good at this game, too, and it's going to take more than just his natural ability for him to thrive. He may have thought he believed that before, but he should certainly understand it now.
Four starts in April for an 18 year-old is a minor speed bump.
757690 (05-03-2018),cincyinco (05-05-2018),nmculbreth (05-03-2018),WrongVerb (05-03-2018)
I'm going to argue it's not minor. Players don't develop when they're completely overmatched. This is beyond humility, and it invites him to overthrow as a way of getting out of the messes in which he consistently finds himself. If you wanted to create a scenario for how to injure a young pitcher, this would be it.
They can't allow this to continue much longer. Either Greene pulls it together and gets himself to semi-respectable or they've got to pull the plug on him him in A ball.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
REDREAD (05-03-2018)
Can you define what pulling it together would look like?
I disagree. I think when someone with the requisite physical talent realizes that he's overmatched, he's likely to figure out what it is he needs to do to stop being overmatched. Now, that doesn't mean the Reds shouldn't change things up for him so that he now has a chance to have some success after tasting adversity for what is probably the first time in his life. Clearly, this isn't working, and it's probably not going to correct on its own. So perhaps they schedule him to throw only an inning or two out of the bullpen every four or five days until he has enough success/confidence to go back into a starting role. But I don't think there's any reason yet to believe this year is somehow being wasted or that he's not still on the path to being a quality big leaguer.
It DOES, however, provide an answer to people who were whispering that maybe he was going to be the next Doc Gooden or Jose Fernandez at 19 or 20 years old. Including, just maybe, Greene himself.
Provide me examples of that working in baseball with pitchers.
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Patience would be not sticking him in over his head. The Reds are doing the opposite of patience with him.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
REDREAD (05-04-2018)
Johnny Cueto, Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Jose Rijo just off the top of my head.
You’re not trying to make the argument that extremely talented guys who struggled early in their careers never figure it out are you?
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