2017-2018 NBA Season Thread Part 4 (Dancing in the Street)

[KoryMac5]

Love ruled out for Game 7

[dubc47834]

Love ruled out for Game 7

The only way the Cavs win Game 7 now is if Lebron has a 50 pt triple double, and that would not be surprising at all!!!

[WVRed]

Love ruled out for Game 7

Basically reinforces the LeBron narrative.

If he wins, he is the greatest of all time, carries a team that had to be retooled mid season to the finals, and wins it on the road in a hostile environment.

If he loses, it’s because he has no supporting cast and his top players are injured. Plus it’s in Boston so they weren’t expected to win anyways.

[dubc47834]

Basically reinforces the LeBron narrative.

If he wins, he is the greatest of all time, carries a team that had to be retooled mid season to the finals, and wins it on the road in a hostile environment.

If he loses, it’s because he has no supporting cast and his top players are injured. Plus it’s in Boston so they weren’t expected to win anyways.

I think to most people outside of Ohio, the only thing that will move him close to Jordan is to win a championship with this team. Just simply making the finals won't do much for him. I think he needs to win multiple championships to even think about calling himself the greatest. His finals record isn't very good, although I think he should get some credit for making them.

[Kingspoint]

I moved LeBron past Jordan, many, many years ago. Jordan had so much more help than LeBron ever had it ain't even funny.

Bill Russell is the GOAT.

[M2]

Bill Russell is the GOAT.

Davey Concepcion was way better.

[WVRed]

Rockets up by 17 at the end of the first quarter without Chris Paul. Wow.

[RedTeamGo!]

Houston players getting mugged in the paint and literally nothing is getting called.

[RedTeamGo!]

Fix is in - NBA wants game 7

GSW would probably win this game without help, but the refs are calling absolutely nothing on them.

[Revering4Blue]

[QUOTE=RedTeamGo!;3794196]Fix is in - NBA wants game 7

GSW would probably win this game without help, but the refs are calling absolutely nothing on them.[/

It’s bad. But Refs don’t account for a 15 point deficit.

This is nothing like the Shaq/Kobe Lakers era.

[Revering4Blue]

I think to most people outside of Ohio, the only thing that will move him close to Jordan is to win a championship with this team. Just simply making the finals won't do much for him. I think he needs to win multiple championships to even think about calling himself the greatest. His finals record isn't very good, although I think he should get some credit for making them.

A couple of points in response:

1)No offense, but the # of Rings argument is bunk. Robert Horry has more rings than MJ or Lebron. Luc Longley has more rings than Moses Malone.

See how ridiculous this argument is.

2)How many times has a Lebron-led team lost in the Finals as the better team on paper? If one looks at this objectively - and i say this as one who enjoyed rooting against the Heatles - the answer is zero.

Many point to the '11 loss to Dallas as evidence to the contrary, but let's be real..Dallas, from top to bottom, had the better roster and a Superstar (at the time) of their own. The Heatles did it with mirrors that season , and hadn't quite added enough lower-salaried ring-chasers (read:Ray Allen and the like).

All Spurs team opponents (with the obvious exception of the '07 Spurs, who were clearly better than the '07 Cavs) were arguably better, or at least even talent-wise with the '13/'14 Heat, at the time, K.Leonard had not quite developed into the two-way force that he is today. All Warriors opponents were clearly superior roster-wise 1-12, and say what you will about the '16 Cavs championship being tainted with Bogut's injury/Green's suspension, but a Championship is a championship and the Cavs likely have two were it not for losing Irving and Love in '15 (even though, aside from rebounding, Love hasn't proven to be much help against the Warriors thus far).

In fact, I'll argue that many demean the Warrior's legacy as a means of, in turn, demeaning LeBron's legacy, which is secure as a player. As a de-facto GM (remember, he tried to get Spoelstra fired in Miami), eh, not so much of a legacy. He deserves criticism there.

[Revering4Blue]

I moved LeBron past Jordan, many, many years ago. Jordan had so much more help than LeBron ever had it ain't even funny.

Bill Russell is the GOAT.

We may be on Island with this argument, but I agree with you here. Other than the seriously flawed "rings" argument, all logical arguments (the only type of arguments that matter) clearly favor LeBron.

Can anyone that doesn't wear Red and Black or Tarheel blue underwear seriously state with a straight face that LeBron wouldn't have as many rings (if not more) than MJ had he been playing in Chicago - and I'm not even counting the period in which MJ was suspended for close to two seasons) in place of MJ during that period?


One slight disagreement - and I say this as someone who never saw the Russell era with the naked eye....Bill Russell played with a far superior cast 90 per cent of the time than Wilt Chamberlain. For that reason alone, I'd place Chamberlain and Russell as co-GOATs at the very least. They would be dominate in any era, including this one, as would The Big 'O.

[Kingspoint]

One slight disagreement - and I say this as someone who never saw the Russell era with the naked eye....Bill Russell played with a far superior cast 90 per cent of the time than Wilt Chamberlain. For that reason alone, I'd place Chamberlain and Russell as co-GOATs at the very least. They would be dominate in any era, including this one, as would The Big 'O.

I actually agree with you 100%. Just didn't want to say it because I didn't feel like dealing with the backlash.

Wilt could have dunked the ball, literally, 40 times per game. His whole career, he tamed down his game because he didn't want to hurt people. He would have hurt people and put them in the hospital every night had he played the way Green does, or come barreling through the lane like LeBron does. He really was a gentle giant. The Lakers were usually 4 or 5 deep. The Celtics were always 10 deep and as a result, could play that team Defense that you still see them playing today.

There were literally whole tiers separating Wilt and Russell from the rest of the league the way LeBron separates himself from everyone else, except it was a larger gap.

To give an example of the gap, Bill Walton's healthy days were during Jabbar's peak abilities, yet the difference between Walton and Jabbar was equivalent to Cousins and Capela. Walton owned Jabbar in every aspect of the game. This substantial gap represents the GOAT's from the rest of the Superstars. There aren't any Warriors who are in this conversation. Durant is in a class by himself compared to the other Warriors, but it takes all of them, plus bench depth to knock off LeBron and a bunch of nobodies.

The Warriors have the benefit of playing in the greatest system since Jordan, Scotty and Phil's Bulls, which was better than even Pop's system. Pop's system relies on finding and taking the highest percentage shots. Phil's, Scotty's and Jordan's, and it didn't work without both Scotty and Phil, and I maintain to my dying day that Jordan never wins a Championship without one of the GOAT's, in Pippin, who was better than Durant. Pippin, every night, was the smartest player on the floor. Their system relied on hustle, (more rebounds, fewer turnovers, fast-break opportunities), which allowed them to win while shooting a lower percentage because they jad more attempts), and historically clutch play the last five minutes of the game, more on Pippen than Jordan.

[dubc47834]

A couple of points in response:

1)No offense, but the # of Rings argument is bunk. Robert Horry has more rings than MJ or Lebron. Luc Longley has more rings than Moses Malone.

See how ridiculous this argument is.

2)How many times has a Lebron-led team lost in the Finals as the better team on paper? If one looks at this objectively - and i say this as one who enjoyed rooting against the Heatles - the answer is zero.

Many point to the '11 loss to Dallas as evidence to the contrary, but let's be real..Dallas, from top to bottom, had the better roster and a Superstar (at the time) of their own. The Heatles did it with mirrors that season , and hadn't quite added enough lower-salaried ring-chasers (read:Ray Allen and the like).

All Spurs team opponents (with the obvious exception of the '07 Spurs, who were clearly better than the '07 Cavs) were arguably better, or at least even talent-wise with the '13/'14 Heat, at the time, K.Leonard had not quite developed into the two-way force that he is today. All Warriors opponents were clearly superior roster-wise 1-12, and say what you will about the '16 Cavs championship being tainted with Bogut's injury/Green's suspension, but a Championship is a championship and the Cavs likely have two were it not for losing Irving and Love in '15 (even though, aside from rebounding, Love hasn't proven to be much help against the Warriors thus far).

In fact, I'll argue that many demean the Warrior's legacy as a means of, in turn, demeaning LeBron's legacy, which is secure as a player. As a de-facto GM (remember, he tried to get Spoelstra fired in Miami), eh, not so much of a legacy. He deserves criticism there.

I agree, the number of rings shouldn't count. If that's the case Bill Russell is the goat! What I was trying to say was, if Lebron can win a chip with this team then he deserves to move close, because this team isn't very good!

[dubc47834]

Lebron isn't playing very good tonite. If he keeps it up, the Cavs are going home!