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Thread: RIP Anthony Bourdain

  1. #46
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: RIP Anthony Bourdain

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    But he judged all suicide victims saying they were cowards.

    Not saying 2 wrongs make a right if we use your logic but where were you when he made that claim? You didnít lecture him about courtesy...
    The coward argument simply doesn't fly because it assumes someone who wants to kill themself can stop themself.

    Some of these folks hear voices, their mind is acting against them...it is so weird to me the concept of trying empathy with mentally ill people.

    "Oh just do like I do, be brave and choose to live!" Just bizarre.


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  3. #47
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: RIP Anthony Bourdain

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    The coward argument simply doesn't fly because it assumes someone who wants to kill themself can stop themself.

    Some of these folks hear voices, their mind is acting against them...it is so weird to me the concept of trying empathy with mentally ill people.

    "Oh just do like I do, be brave and choose to live!" Just bizarre.
    I was going to do a long post about the Robin Williams case just as one easy to digest example of how suicide isn't cowardly, (Is it sometimes...sure I suppose if that is the argument made) but figured it wasn't worth my while.

  4. #48
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: RIP Anthony Bourdain

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Let's extend that courtesy to the principle of not judging other people's opinions. He's entitled to his own opinion of suicide and I hope we don't encroach on his freedom to express it on these forums.
    I think the tone was what people were upset about.

  5. #49
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: RIP Anthony Bourdain

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    But he judged all suicide victims saying they were cowards.

    Not saying 2 wrongs make a right if we use your logic but where were you when he made that claim? You didnít lecture him about courtesy...
    I respect his opinion and he has a right to it. Why would I lecture him on his opinion? My guess is that he's thinking about his 11 yr old daughter.

  6. #50
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: RIP Anthony Bourdain

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    "Suicide is sefish" assumes the person doing it can reason their way to stop: "I'm needed, I shouldn't do this. Think of the pain I'll cause, I must live."

    You said yourself that all the money and fame amd power doesnt seem to prevent it, how could "think of the pain you'll cause" help?

    It is easy to reason with logic when you aren't mentally ill.
    You make a great point about mental illness. When you're mentally ill there's no telling what one might do.

  7. #51
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: RIP Anthony Bourdain

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I was going to do a long post about the Robin Williams case just as one easy to digest example of how suicide isn't cowardly, (Is it sometimes...sure I suppose if that is the argument made) but figured it wasn't worth my while.
    I would think one of the traits of mental illness would be difficulty stopping self harm.

    Suicide is not about bravery vs cowardice. It is about ending pain.

    A dear friend of mine tried so many times- he was hurting so bad...he failed twice...then drove his car to the top of the Sunshine Skyway Bridge, parked, and leapt off.

    He once told me it wasn't about anything other than stopping his mind from driving him crazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    You make a great point about mental illness. When you're mentally ill there's no telling what one might do.
    Usually with mental illness it is harm to one's self that is the issue.

  8. #52
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: RIP Anthony Bourdain

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I respect his opinion and he has a right to it. Why would I lecture him on his opinion? My guess is that he's thinking about his 11 yr old daughter.
    I would also guess he isn't mentally ill.

    Someone not in their proper mind may even reason that their 11 year old girl is better off without them. Mental illness can strain relationships- the person who has it knows this...maybe they just toss that on the pile of reasons...

    But I would imagine they go down lots of rabbit holes.

  9. #53
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: RIP Anthony Bourdain

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    The coward argument simply doesn't fly because it assumes someone who wants to kill themself can stop themself.

    Some of these folks hear voices, their mind is acting against them...it is so weird to me the concept of trying empathy with mentally ill people.

    "Oh just do like I do, be brave and choose to live!" Just bizarre.
    I understand what you're saying but such a principle can extend to other circumstances. Are you sure you want to go there?

    Let's start with the mentally ill person who's full of despair and all of the irrationality that comes with it. But before killing himself, decides to take a few others with him, such as shooting up a school. Do we refuse to call him a coward and lament the mental illness that he suffered from? I think not. In that case he gets no such pass in the court of public opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    I would also guess he isn't mentally ill.

    Someone not in their proper mind may even reason that their 11 year old girl is better off without them. Mental illness can strain relationships- the person who has it knows this...maybe they just toss that on the pile of reasons...

    But I would imagine they go down lots of rabbit holes.
    Being suicidal is certainly a sign of mental illness.

  10. #54
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: RIP Anthony Bourdain

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I understand what you're saying but such a principle can extend to other circumstances. Are you sure you want to go there?

    Let's start with the mentally ill person who's full of despair and all of the irrationality that comes with it. But before killing himself, decides to take a few others with him, such as shooting up a school. Do we refuse to call him a coward and lament the mental illness that he suffered from? I think not. In that case he gets no such pass in the court of public opinion.
    This began when all suicide victims were labeled as "cowardly" and you came along in response to the uproar saying "he has a point..." and off the rails it went.

    The guy who most took issue with said very plainly, "all people who commit suicides are cowards." Before we go along with anymore word/scenario games, do you agree with that?

  11. #55
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: RIP Anthony Bourdain

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    The guy who most took issue with said very plainly, "all people who commit suicides are cowards." Before we go along with anymore word/scenario games, do you agree with that?
    My answer is I can understand why someone would say that. Personally I wouldn't put it in exactly those terms and I didn't.

  12. #56
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: RIP Anthony Bourdain

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    My answer is I can understand why someone would say that. Personally I wouldn't put it in exactly those terms and I didn't.
    You are correct, many people say this- heck, I have to stop myself from it. Admittedly.

    And then you have to remind yourself that logic and mental illness dont go hand in hand.

    My issue with the poster who brought up cowardice is that it seemed to come with some spite rather than a "Man, why not stay around for the kids?"

    - - - Updated - - -

    People who view suicide as cowardly vs brave have the argument framed improperly.

  13. #57
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    Re: RIP Anthony Bourdain

    Jesus Christ, the direction this thread took...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    When it comes to crow, I'd like nothing more than to eat Dick's all season long and into the postseason.

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  15. #58
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: RIP Anthony Bourdain

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    You are correct, many people say this- heck, I have to stop myself from it. Admittedly.

    And then you have to remind yourself that logic and mental illness dont go hand in hand.

    My issue with the poster who brought up cowardice is that it seemed to come with some spite rather than a "Man, why not stay around for the kids?"

    - - - Updated - - -

    People who view suicide as cowardly vs brave have the argument framed improperly.
    I think it most certainly is cowardly but I respect your opinion. Mentally ill people do cowardly things.

    I'll say one thing specific to this case. Doing heavy drugs, particularly as a young person, changes your "wiring" for life. It changes your brain and it's dangerous. I think that played a factor here too.

  16. #59
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: RIP Anthony Bourdain

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I think it most certainly is cowardly but I respect your opinion. Mentally ill people do cowardly things.

    I'll say one thing specific to this case. Doing heavy drugs, particularly as a young person, changes your "wiring" for life. It changes your brain and it's dangerous. I think that played a factor here too.
    Cowardice assumes awareness with an ability to stop oneself.

    I'm not there with you, but as you say, I do respect your opinion.

    You and I are closer on the drug issue than most here- while I don't like the idea of criminalization, I'm not one for a free for all, "it only hurts yourself so they should be legal" nonsense. I think we share some common ground there.

  17. #60
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: RIP Anthony Bourdain

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Jesus Christ, the direction this thread took...
    Suicide is a social issue....people come to these message boards to exchange their ideas...I'm never surprised anymore by where the conversations lead, the anonymity of these things allows people to kick around things they have been thinking about.

    As I told Sea Ray, I'm not in agreement with suicide being a bravery issue, but you see that come up enough with people that it merits discussion. As I said, it has been my instinctual reaction a time or two, even though I know (believe) better.


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