Ohio State Football - 2018 (Pre-Season and Urban Meyer controversy)

[Reds Fanatic]

Does Urban Meyer survive the week?

Yes this is really ugly. I don't know how they talk their way out of this when they are text messages between the coach's ex wive and Urban's wife showing the exact opposite of what Urban said a few weeks ago

https://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...-ex-assistant/

[BuckeyeRed27]

Yeah this is exactly what I was afraid of. There is just no way he didn't know, given his position and relationship to Zach Smith.

I'm guessing he will say he didn't know the magnitude of it and that Shelley didn't tell him about it (which is unlikely). They tried to do what they thought was the right thing back in 2009, but of course that only made it worse because know his wife felt like she could never come forward.

I'm not sure Urban loses his job over this, but he really needs to acknowledge that he failed Courtney Smith and apologize for that.

[Hillsdale87]

I guess it's possible that he knew about the DV, but not about the 911 call. So if he did not know that a call to police had been made, then I'm not sure he would have had grounds to fire him. That doesn't explain why he would have extended him though.

It's amazing how people continue to think they can get away with things. The truth can almost never stay hidden. The internet always wins

[BuckeyeRed27]

I guess it's possible that he knew about the DV, but not about the 911 call. So if he did not know that a call to police had been made, then I'm not sure he would have had grounds to fire him. That doesn't explain why he would have extended him though.

It's amazing how people continue to think they can get away with things. The truth can almost never stay hidden. The internet always wins

Right and that will be what he says. The article was about the legal aspect of this and he can say he never knew about the police being called or any legal action about Zach Smith, and he very well might have not known about that. (BTW, assuming those pictures are from 2015, how is it possible the police DIDN'T arrest him and it was hard for Courtney Smith to get some type of restraining order?)

It is really hard to believe that he didn't know something was going on. Given what he knew about 2009, you can't just dismiss "rumors" or whatever after that point.

[Hillsdale87]

Right and that will be what he says. The article was about the legal aspect of this and he can say he never knew about the police being called or any legal action about Zach Smith, and he very well might have not known about that. (BTW, assuming those pictures are from 2015, how is it possible the police DIDN'T arrest him and it was hard for Courtney Smith to get some type of restraining order?)

It is really hard to believe that he didn't know something was going on. Given what he knew about 2009, you can't just dismiss "rumors" or whatever after that point.

Right. I don't know what you do in the moment if you know something is going on, but no charges are filed. And he may not have 100% known, but it's pretty clear that he at least had very strong reason to believe that something bad was happening. You can excuse him not firing Smith in 2015 without charges filed, and it's possible that he didn't know about the incident where Smith's wife called the police. But resigning him doesn't make any sense.

And the crazy thing is, replacing Smith would not have been hard! I believe he was the lowest paid coach on the staff. He wasn't in high demand, and the fans have wanted him gone for performance for a while.

[bucksfan2]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...-ex-assistant/

I hope this isn't too much of the article but here are the bullet points laid out in the article

-Courtney Smith's text messages with Meyer's wife, Shelley, who at one point during a 2015 exchange said, "I am with you! A lot of women stay hoping it will get better. I don't blame you! But just want u to be safe. Do you have a restraining order? He scares me." Courtney added that Shelley was a "frequent texter."

-Courtney's communication with wives of other Ohio State assistants and staffers. McMurphy writes that those wives "and a number of Ohio State assistant coaches were aware of Smith's domestic violence issues." Speaking with McMurphy, Courtney said, "All the [coaches] wives knew. They all did. Every single one."

-A change in the police report for the domestic violence incident on Oct. 26, 2015. Per the Powell Police report, a box was checked indicating Zach Smith had been arrested. However, in a revised report, the Powell Police that arrest box was no longer checked. The PPD told McMurphy "The terminology used by the Police Department was different in the original report (dated 10/26/2015) and inconsistent with what actually occurred."

-Courtney telling McMurphy the following: "Zach once told me, if he ever got fired and this all comes out: 'I'll take everyone at Ohio State down with me.'"

Smith seems like a real POS. But just a few of my thoughts:

-The wives of coaches have to be pretty close. It appears as if the Smiths had a very volatile relationship. It also appears as if Shelly knew this, however in reading the exchange, its pretty unclear about what it refers to.

-Its pretty evident that everyone knew about Smith's domestic violence issues. I don't mean this tongue and cheek, just it has been admitted that Urban knew about what happened in Florida. Is there more to this? Are there more examples that had been known. I don't want to sound dismissive of this, but it seems like this whole "everyone knew" is a gotcha tool used by McMurphy in this story.

-The police report seems to be the linchpin to this entire story. The redacted nature of the report makes me believe that the Powell police buried to story at the time. As of now I tend to believe that Urban did not know the full scope of what happened. I believe that Urban's relationship with Earle and Zach is the primary reason he brought him to OSU and kept him on the staff. I also fully believe that Urban thought he could help both Zach and Courtney in their relationship. Urban has always referred to Earle as a second father figure, it probably distorted his judgment on this relationship. That said, I just don't know how Urban meets with OSU's PR staff and then would lie about the 2015 incident.

McMurphy will continue to dig to try and find something. Right now it reads like a bunch of accusations thrown out there while trying loosely to connect the dots. If this goes to court, and there is a suit somewhere, that is when all the info will come out.

I think as said above, right now I think Urban failed Courtney Smith.

[RedTeamGo!]

Urban’s gotta go.

There’s no way he didn’t know. Same thing I said about PSU and MSU, the lack of real accountability encourages cover ups.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Urban’s gotta go.

There’s no way he didn’t know. Same thing I said about PSU and MSU, the lack of real accountability encourages cover ups.

The thing I'm mulling over here is what is he covering up? At no point in his past at OSU has he ever taken any domestic violence cases lightly (Hyde, Klein). I get the Earle Bruce thing, but there is no way if a police report is filed in 2015 Urban doesn't fire him immediately.

From reading between the lines of that story, I would say that Shelly told Urban, probably didn't show him the pictures, Urban talked to Smith and he denied it. Urban was maligned (I think rightly) for using the "he said/she said" phrase last week, but that is what he has now in his mind. No police report that he knows of and two people saying different things. Did he tell Gene Smith? Did the University look into it at the time? Those are big questions to me in determining if Urban should be around.

So if they (Urban/Gene/University) did know exactly what was happening and buried it what is the reason? To keep the lowest paid, worst coach on your staff out of some loyalty to Earle Bruce? Or did Urban not feel he knew enough and the University didn't find the 2015 police report that would have given them the reason to fire Zach Smith? Those are the two scenarios.

[dougdirt]

Fire him yesterday.

[Chip R]

The thing I'm mulling over here is what is he covering up? At no point in his past at OSU has he ever taken any domestic violence cases lightly (Hyde, Klein). I get the Earle Bruce thing, but there is no way if a police report is filed in 2015 Urban doesn't fire him immediately.

From reading between the lines of that story, I would say that Shelly told Urban, probably didn't show him the pictures, Urban talked to Smith and he denied it. Urban was maligned (I think rightly) for using the "he said/she said" phrase last week, but that is what he has now in his mind. No police report that he knows of and two people saying different things. Did he tell Gene Smith? Did the University look into it at the time? Those are big questions to me in determining if Urban should be around.

So if they (Urban/Gene/University) did know exactly what was happening and buried it what is the reason? To keep the lowest paid, worst coach on your staff out of some loyalty to Earle Bruce? Or did Urban not feel he knew enough and the University didn't find the 2015 police report that would have given them the reason to fire Zach Smith? Those are the two scenarios.

I don't have a dog in this hunt but it's easier to discipline players than a coach/friend. With players you are teaching them a lesson and it looks good to people on the outside that you are not taking something like that lightly. With a coach who is also a friend it's harder to do. The coach is an adult (so are the players but they barely are) so you may believe that whatever goes on between him and his wife is none of your business. You may talk to him; maybe tell him to get counseling but firing him may be a step too far. If he broke a recruiting rule or assaulted a player or another coach that's probably something that you can't condone. But if it happens off the field it's easier to wash your hands of it.

I am probably wrong but I don't think this will be a fireable offense. Mainly because it's an excellent team and they don't want to lose him as a coach. I could definitely see a suspension but I think a straight sacking won't happen.

[bucksfan2]

The thing I'm mulling over here is what is he covering up? At no point in his past at OSU has he ever taken any domestic violence cases lightly (Hyde, Klein). I get the Earle Bruce thing, but there is no way if a police report is filed in 2015 Urban doesn't fire him immediately.

From reading between the lines of that story, I would say that Shelly told Urban, probably didn't show him the pictures, Urban talked to Smith and he denied it. Urban was maligned (I think rightly) for using the "he said/she said" phrase last week, but that is what he has now in his mind. No police report that he knows of and two people saying different things. Did he tell Gene Smith? Did the University look into it at the time? Those are big questions to me in determining if Urban should be around.

So if they (Urban/Gene/University) did know exactly what was happening and buried it what is the reason? To keep the lowest paid, worst coach on your staff out of some loyalty to Earle Bruce? Or did Urban not feel he knew enough and the University didn't find the 2015 police report that would have given them the reason to fire Zach Smith? Those are the two scenarios.

From Eleven Warriors:

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-...se-allegations

In a video interview published by the sports network Stadium, Courtney said she did not tell Shelley Meyer or any of the other coaches' wives about physical abuse from Smith until 2015, after she and Zach were legally separated. From that point forward, Courtney said she remained in touch with Shelley, though she said Shelley did not ever tell her that she told Urban about what Courtney had told her.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">EXCLUSIVE: Longtime Urban Meyer assistant Zach Smith&#39;s ex-wife, Courtney Smith, opens up about reported domestic violence and what she believes Meyer knew. <a href="https://t.co/dNWA9x2F4y">pic.twitter.com/dNWA9x2F4y</a></p>&mdash; Stadium (@WatchStadium) <a href="https://twitter.com/WatchStadium/status/1024690700217200640?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 1, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This just sounds unfortunate all around. Just in reading the article, I can see Earle, or any parent for that matter stepping in and saying that someone can change. We all hope our kids can change, right? Then Courtney goes to her parents and his parents, and nothing is done.

I don't know what to think of the twitter video. Courtney says that she doesn't tell anyone prior to the divorce but after the divorce is finalized she tells Shelley. But then to add to the confusion, there are no police reports with Zach Smith listed. So as Urban says in the press conference, it becomes a he/she said thing. The timeline of events happening is somewhat puzzling.

I feel terrible for Courtney, I think she was let down by her family most importantly. I also think the state of domestic abuse issues in our country, especially with the policing and enforcing them are terrible. The spouse being abused often times feels pressure and never follows through with the prosecution. I think Urban is facing some heat because the buck stops with him. I also think that it is very unclear what he knew when he knew it. I think he needs to stand up and speak frankly on the topic. Reporters will continue to dig, I don't know how much more they will get on this story. Right now to the best of my knowledge, Shelley knows about something that happened in and around 2015, when she was made aware of that is still uncertain.

[Hillsdale87]

I don't have a dog in this hunt but it's easier to discipline players than a coach/friend. With players you are teaching them a lesson and it looks good to people on the outside that you are not taking something like that lightly. With a coach who is also a friend it's harder to do. The coach is an adult (so are the players but they barely are) so you may believe that whatever goes on between him and his wife is none of your business. You may talk to him; maybe tell him to get counseling but firing him may be a step too far. If he broke a recruiting rule or assaulted a player or another coach that's probably something that you can't condone. But if it happens off the field it's easier to wash your hands of it.

Agreed. This doesn't excuse Meyer, but the "are you beating your wife?" conversation has to be just about the most awkward and uncomfortable conversations possible, especially if it's with somebody that you love. Again, not excusing Meyer because he gets paid a lot to manage his program, so this conversation needed to happen, but without a police report, this is not an easy situation.

Also, the fact that she told her parents and asked for help, and apparently did not receive any, is really hard to hear. What kind of a parent doesn't immediately get their daughter out of there? I have little kids, and my job is to protect them. I know things will change once they're out of the house, but I imagine that protective instinct doesn't go away.

[Redsfaithful]

This is a mess and I don't trust anyone to handle it sensitively. It's just going to be other college football fanbases gleefully hoping he gets fired. There's an unfortunate amount of nuance and confusion, and a lot of weird behavior from Courtney that is hard to understand if you haven't been around an abusive relationship before.

I legitimately don't know what Urban Meyer's responsibility was here, and I mean legally not morally. Does anyone know what his Title IX responsibility would be in this situation? That's what will come down to him getting fired or not.

[BuckeyeRed27]

This is a mess and I don't trust anyone to handle it sensitively. It's just going to be other college football fanbases gleefully hoping he gets fired. There's an unfortunate amount of nuance and confusion, and a lot of weird behavior from Courtney that is hard to understand if you haven't been around an abusive relationship before.

I legitimately don't know what Urban Meyer's responsibility was here, and I mean legally not morally. Does anyone know what his Title IX responsibility would be in this situation? That's what will come down to him getting fired or not.

Courtney Smith didn't work for the University, so I don't think there is any Title IX issues here. I've seen that floated around on Twitter, but I don't think that's how it works.

[Chip R]

This is a mess and I don't trust anyone to handle it sensitively. It's just going to be other college football fanbases gleefully hoping he gets fired. There's an unfortunate amount of nuance and confusion, and a lot of weird behavior from Courtney that is hard to understand if you haven't been around an abusive relationship before.

I legitimately don't know what Urban Meyer's responsibility was here, and I mean legally not morally. Does anyone know what his Title IX responsibility would be in this situation? That's what will come down to him getting fired or not.

Would Title IX apply since it was something that happened off the field and not to another student? Let's say an assistant coach gets nailed for a OWI or assault or theft. If the head coach finds out about it and does nothing should he keep his job if he's asked about it later and denies he knew about it?