Minor league system is a bottom 5 system.

[Tony Cloninger]

The only take accepted is "Reds suck, farm to majors." Constant losing wears on people. Overrated system? Likely. Bottom 5....nope.

I agree. The lack of starters. I mean really the term is a joke now when you barely allow pitchers to go 100 pitches now and turn the 6 inning start into this generations complete game makes the Reds lack of being able to develop more than what? 2 guys who can go 6 with an ERA less than 4 anywhere around this organization?

I have thought that Bill James 6 Innings 3 runs allowed analytics of starters way back in the early 80s as a joke. I mean in the 80s and even into the 90s you still had starters. The Top 3 guys at least average 7 innings and pitchers still threw CG at least 30-40 percent of the time.

Anyways. I don’t know if James was being prophetic or analytical GMs just decided to go just swing the pendulum fully the other way but I cannot stand the way pitching is now in baseball. The rule change of a reliever having to pitch to at least 3 hitters before being replace cannot come fast enough.

[Tom Servo]

Doug --just his name --all i am asking?? Just his name.

It's Miguel Hernandez, jesus christ. Can we please lock this dumb thread already.

[dougdirt]

I'm still waiting for the talent that's been developed in the last 3 years ....Tucker Barnhart?

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Doug --just his name --all i am asking?? Just his name.

The bare minimum effort should be required here. It would take you all of about 2 minutes to have looked up the answer.

[mth123]

5. MTH13: I said Senzel was an A player, Hunter Greene is hurt - how in the hell do we know how that's going to turn out --what's his trade value as of right now?, Jose Siri has a K/BB that in AA that players don't overcome - he won't be listed in anyone's top 100 or top 200 if there was such a thing. If he turns it around he's a 5th OFer based on tools- there's nothing there. If you want to hit a ride on that guy go ahead --he'll never hit enough. Fairchild might.

I see where you rated Senzel as an A after re-reading your post. But you definitively listed

Tyler Stephenson
Shed Long
Jeter Downs
Michael Beltre
TJ Friedl
Taylor Trammell
Rylan Thomas
Matt Wisler
Vlad Gurierrez

followed by "That's it --that's the guys that have a chance to reach the majors and be better than a replacement player."

So Greene, Santillan, Siri, Fairchild, Siani have no chance I suppose.

As I said, I think the system is over-rated, but you've left out quite a few guys who have a chance.

I'm with you that the Reds seem to get a lot of credit for having guys who might be a 25th man if you squint real hard (Nick Longhi, Gavin Lavelley, Alfredo Radriguez etc.) and it enhances their "rankings." But they've had some success. Winker comes to mind. I'm still not a fan of the Frazier deal, but Peraza and Schebler are both successes. I also think it's too early to write off some of the pitchers. The Reds have screwed the pooch there by sticking guys in the rotation too soon and asking them to do too much compared to their development point (Reed, Finnegan, Stephenson, Romano, Mahle) but I still think some of those guys have a chance to be decent. The consistent mistake has been to rely on them for 3 or 4 rotation spots at the same time. I don't think it was because they were bad prospects. The Reds were simply too cheap to put them in a position to thrive with a couple of reliable vets carrying the load, and these guys being left in AAA to finish developing their pitches that weren't ready (Stephenson, Romano), managed better as big leaguers (Reed being left to take an extended pounding, Finnegan jumping from reliever to workhorse starter, etc).

[Cooper]

You know --i went out --saw a ton of games, have season tickets to the Dragons games --been to Louisville games maybe 10 times this year, subscribe to Sickels, read Baseball America, go to Doug's site every day ... put a lot of names out there- responded to every freaking post ... and all i ask is who has developed and who will contribute ... and most of you guys just want to play your little guessing games and set up strawmen and don't really have jack to say other than call me names. Do some freaking research of your own. Put it out there (i do give MTH and Doug credit --at least they put their reps on the line). The rest of you -- until you can report what has been developed and give an assessment of your own --and put something out there with your own rep at stake ... it adds up to nothing.

[Flair4Horsemen]

Everyone is trying to rate the system in a vacuum, and you can't really do that. If the Reds system is overrated, what systems are underrated?

[Rolando]

You know --i went out --saw a ton of games, have season tickets to the Dragons games --been to Louisville games maybe 10 times this year, subscribe to Sickels, read Baseball America, go to Doug's site every day ... put a lot of names out there- responded to every freaking post ... and all i ask is who has developed and who will contribute ... and most of you guys just want to play your little guessing games and set up strawmen and don't really have jack to say other than call me names. Do some freaking research of your own. Put it out there (i do give MTH and Doug credit --at least they put their reps on the line). The rest of you -- until you can report what has been developed and give an assessment of your own --and put something out there with your own rep at stake ... it adds up to nothing.

What MLB team or scouting service do you work for? Just curious

[Cooper]

@MTH ... they developed Schebler and Peraza at the MLB level. Do you really believe the minor league system had an effect on their development? Really. Peraza played 71 games at Lou./he played 72 with the Reds. He wouldn't have qualified for any real prospect list. The developed him at the MLB if anything. The year they got Schrebler he played more games in the MLB than in the minors --he wasn't on any lists. The system didn't develop anything on either one of those guys.

You listed Greene- he has a chance --what's his trade value as of right now?

The board's fascination with Siri is silly-- he's a 25th man. That K/BB is not going to play --i'm going to guess you couldn't name one AA player with that rate that ever contributed more than a couple wins in WAR. Siani is down in Greenville-- it's almost less than a good college league. What are the odds that Tony S can develop when they haven't developed any pitcher beyond AA?

Much credit to responded with names --you're gutsy.

[dougdirt]

The Greeneville Reds would have dominated the SEC the likes of which have never been seen. Please don't try to compare professional baseball to college baseball. It would be a blood bath.

[Cooper]

@ Flair -- i thought you were ignoring me? Why are you here? I'm a "troll" remember? Now leave.

[dougdirt]

@ Flair -- i thought you were ignoring me? Why are you here? I'm a "troll" remember? Now leave.

This is trolling behavior.

[Cooper]

@ Doug --name the Shortstop ... otherwise we are done. I've asked numerous times-- name him.

[dougdirt]

@ Doug --name the Shortstop ... otherwise we are done. I've asked numerous times-- name him.

All it takes for this whole thing to be done is me not naming a shortstop that's already been named in this thread? Sweet. I'll keep my mouth shut then and let this thread die the death it deserves.

[Cooper]

@ doug -OMG -- did i set out to call anyone names? No.

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@Doug --- cya Doug -- all you had to do was name his name, but i set the bar too high. Take care.

[Flair4Horsemen]

@ doug -OMG -- did i set out to call anyone names? No.

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@Doug --- cya Doug -- all you had to do was name his name, but i set the bar too high. Take care.

and all you have to do is rank all the teams in baseball, but I set the bar too high.