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Thread: David Bell Needs To Go

  1. #496
    Member mth123's Avatar
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Considering Bell’s removal of Winker last night in the sixth, he probably overmanaged there. But let’s look at some of the pros and cons of this particular move.

    Favoring Bell’s move -

    1. Winker isn’t playing outfield much this year - he usually DHs. This was the odd game when he played D. Probably the game plan was to remove him with a lead. If he was the DH, he likely would have stayed in.

    2. If Jankowski came to bat in a key spot with men on base, Shogo and Ervin remained available. So it’s not like Bell was out of hitters.

    On the other hand -

    1. The sixth inning is a bit early. Winker was playing LF, not CF, Having Jesse out there a couple more innings would have been ok. You could remove him in the ninth to hold a lead.

    2. Jesse is one of the few guys hitting well, which magnifies his removal. Not too many guys you can count on right now to win that game in a late tie.

    3. Might have been more effective to use Jankowski’s speed in a more “key” pinch running spot later on.

    It worked out ok, which is the bottom line, my tilt is that the removal was premature, What’s most significant is that Winker is hitting lefties, which is a big deal.
    Jankowski came up in the 8th with runners on. He hit for himself and was completely overmatched. Any use of Jankowski that results in him going to the plate at all is a mistake. Using him in the 6th inning guaranteed that. This was a big mistake and Bell was bailed out because the CF couldn't catch Votto's warning track fly ball. Jankowski needs to be off the roster to prevent this type of stupidity. The Reds have Senzel and Shogo to play CF with Ervin in a real pinch. It's a waste of a roster spot to have another one who really isn't usable. The other OF positions are better manned by Aquino who is also a threat at the plate.

    The Jankowski thing hasn't made much sense to me since they acquired him. Once Shogo was signed and Senzel was proven healthy enough, Jankowski became nothing more than an insurance policy to be stashed somewhere. Like all insurance policies, the hope is you never need to use it. The most distinguishing thing about Jankowski is that he looks like Bronson Arroyo, except Arroyo was a better hitter.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

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  4. #497
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Jankowski came up in the 8th with runners on. He hit for himself and was completely overmatched. Any use of Jankowski that results in him going to the plate at all is a mistake. Using him in the 6th inning guaranteed that. This was a big mistake and Bell was bailed out because the CF couldn't catch Votto's warning track fly ball. Jankowski needs to be off the roster to prevent this type of stupidity. The Reds have Senzel and Shogo to play CF with Ervin in a real pinch. It's a waste of a roster spot to have another one who really isn't usable. The other OF positions are better manned by Aquino who is also a threat at the plate.

    The Jankowski thing hasn't made much sense to me since they acquired him. Once Shogo was signed and Senzel was proven healthy enough, Jankowski became nothing more than an insurance policy to be stashed somewhere. Like all insurance policies, the hope is you never need to use it. The most distinguishing thing about Jankowski is that he looks like Bronson Arroyo, except Arroyo was a better hitter.
    Jankowski did not come up with “runners on.” He came up with a man on first and two outs in the eighth. He wasn’t overmatched, he struck out on a foul tip with a full count. One of 21 strikeouts in the game. It wasn’t a “big mistake” because it played little role in the outcome of the game, which the Reds won.

    Sometimes an objective, factual review helps us fully discuss Bell’s moves, even when we disagree with those moves. That was what I was going for.
    Last edited by Kc61; 08-12-2020 at 08:43 AM.

  5. #498
    Member penantboundreds's Avatar
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Jankowski did not come up with “runners on.” He came up with a man on first and two outs in the eighth. He wasn’t overmatched, he struck out on a foul tip with a full count. One of 21 strikeouts in the game. It wasn’t a “big mistake” because it played little role in the outcome of the game, which the Reds won.

    Sometimes an objective, factual review helps us fully discuss Bell’s moves, even when we disagree with those moves. That was what I was going for.
    He also missed slicing a double down the line by a few feet. Now, if he hit the double down the line and Votto couldn't score....it would have been second-guessed why Votto didn't get pinch ran for. But then in the 10th, Votto wins the game with a double. Basically, Hindsight is easy.
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  6. #499
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Quote Originally Posted by penantboundreds View Post
    He also missed slicing a double down the line by a few feet. Now, if he hit the double down the line and Votto couldn't score....it would have been second-guessed why Votto didn't get pinch ran for. But then in the 10th, Votto wins the game with a double. Basically, Hindsight is easy.
    Except it wasn't hindsight. The minute they put him in I made a one word post and I quote myself "Ughh!"

    I just don't think Jankowski is a big league player and I don't see how taking out actual big league players midway through the game in favor of a minor leaguer helps anything.

    Garbage time to rest somebody? OK

    Later in the game when the guy he's replacing for defense won't come up again? tolerable

    6th inning of a contest still in doubt? No. Don't use him there.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

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  8. #500
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Pulling your hottest hitter in the 6th of a two run game for a pinch runner with two outs is the act of someone who thinks they are smarter than everyone else.


    When they're not.


    Especially with this bullpen.

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  10. #501
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    BTW, I don't think anyone can blame Bell for the Bullpen. He was dealt a bad hand with way too many questions and no real answers.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

  11. #502
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    So interesting the constant criticism by some toward Jankowski and how he is used by Bell. Even when it has no impact on the outcome.

    Jankowski has the fewest PAs on the current roster. He isn’t being used that much.

    Van Meter is hitting 0 for the season. Colon is 3 for 22. Barnhart has a .367 OPS. Ervin is 2 for 20. Suarez, a highly paid player, is hitting .123. Reds have nine position players (excluding Lorenzen) OPSing under .700.

    Yet the constant refrain about Jankowski.

    We all know the reason for Janko, team is pretty slow with several weak defenders. He has a limited role on a 28 man roster. Don’t like picking on the little guy, it obscures the real issues.
    Last edited by Kc61; 08-12-2020 at 10:02 AM.

  12. #503
    Backup First Baseman OGB's Avatar
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    So interesting the constant criticism by some toward Jankowski and how he is used by Bell. Even when it has no impact on the outcome.

    Jankowski has the fewest PAs on the current roster. He isn’t being used that much.

    Van Meter is hitting 0 for the season. Colon is 3 for 22. Barnhart has a .367 OPS. Ervin is 2 for 20. Suarez, a highly paid player, is hitting .123. Reds have nine position players (excluding Lorenzen) OPSing under .700.

    Yet the constant refrain about Jankowski.

    We all know the reason for Janko, team is pretty slow with several weak defenders. He has a limited role on a 28 man roster. Don’t like picking on the little guy, it obscures the real issues.
    The fact that this entire roster is struggling so much to hit only amplifies the idiocy of pinch running for your hottest hitter with 2 outs in the 6th inning.
    (Referring to Jack Hannahan signing with a Korean team)
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  14. #504
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Huge mind-boggling mistake to remove your hottest hitter (Winker) in the 6th. I just don't know how you let that slide.

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  16. #505
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    yes and keep aquino in the minors for ervin, etc., mind numbing even with minimal at bats aquino still knocked in a couple of runs early on

  17. #506
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Jankowski did not come up with “runners on.” He came up with a man on first and two outs in the eighth. He wasn’t overmatched, he struck out on a foul tip with a full count. One of 21 strikeouts in the game. It wasn’t a “big mistake” because it played little role in the outcome of the game, which the Reds won.

    Sometimes an objective, factual review helps us fully discuss Bell’s moves, even when we disagree with those moves. That was what I was going for.
    The move with Jankowski last night is just a microcosm of Bell this year. His bullpen is hot garbage right now, yet he is managing like he has an elite pen that can hold onto any lead. I mean, we were up 2 runs in the 6th and he pulls a hitter who has been on fire, to effectively put a bit slower version of Billy Hamilton in Left Field in Great American Ballpark as a defensive replacement.

    He needs to stop over-managing.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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  19. #507
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    David Bell knows baseball, a lot of former pros know baseball, but that doesnt make you a manager. I think a lot of us agree the bullpen is a mess. We dont fault Bell for bringing in Amir and him giving up the lead because Amir has been as rock solid in the pen as we can get. However, when he continues to go to guys such as Lorenzen, who I'm sure is as likeable a guy as you can find, that's what makes Bell look bad. ML just hasnt been able to get anyone out this year. He seems like a thrower, not a pitcher. And honestly I don't blame ML anymore, because he has been consistent in not being able to come in and shut the door on teams. It's on Bell at this point for continuing to hit that button that doesnt work.

    Then you have the constant subbing of guys mid game. Last night the minute he subbed Wink for Janko, I knew that was gonna haunt us. With the current state of our bullpen, you CANNOT go defensive mode and hope to shut teams down for 3+ innings. Had it not been for Farmer, Sims, and Vottos walk off, the Reds would have lost that game. I would much rather Bell just let the 9 guys on the lineup card ride the game out until at least the 8th inning before you start changing things up. I understand using Janko for speed if you need an insurance run or trying to break a tie or whatever late, but not in the 6th inning when our bullpen is about to enter and has been horrendous.

  20. #508
    Member mth123's Avatar
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    So interesting the constant criticism by some toward Jankowski and how he is used by Bell. Even when it has no impact on the outcome.

    Jankowski has the fewest PAs on the current roster. He isn’t being used that much.

    Van Meter is hitting 0 for the season. Colon is 3 for 22. Barnhart has a .367 OPS. Ervin is 2 for 20. Suarez, a highly paid player, is hitting .123. Reds have nine position players (excluding Lorenzen) OPSing under .700.

    Yet the constant refrain about Jankowski.

    We all know the reason for Janko, team is pretty slow with several weak defenders. He has a limited role on a 28 man roster. Don’t like picking on the little guy, it obscures the real issues.
    Colon and VanMeter are playing because Moose is injured and I think both belong at Prasco. Suarez and Barnhart are starting players the team needs to live or die with. I'm all for pushing Ervin out as well and making Aquino the 4th OF. The Rrds should have Akiyama, Senzel, and Castellanos in the OF with Winker at DH and Aquino as fourth OF. Barnhart and Casali split the catching duties. Votto, Moose, Galvis and Suarez around the IF with Farmer as the primary back-up. Davidson has earned a job as RH DH platooning with Shogo at the moment with Winker in LF. Ervin has rightly been pushed to the background. When Winker cools off, Aquino should get time in the OF against LHP and he can play a Corner OF spot when Senzel needs off with Shogo in CF. He can play RF when Cast needs off. Playing anyone other than those main guys is an issue unless there is an injury.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

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  22. #509
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Bell over manages using lesser talented players. That's what befuddles me. Playing match ups with the likes of Ervin, VanMeter, Jankowski, etc. is just strange.

    I'll give Bell a pass on the bullpen. It doesn't matter who brings in because they are all prone to blowing a lead.

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  24. #510
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Not defending Bell, but in a normal season, we’re still in April. Guys are trying to win jobs. Manager is trying to figure out who he can rely on. Sample sizes have to build up to see who can play and who can’t. So Bell is going through that process in the thick of a pennant race.

    But yes, Bell like shiny things and if there is a move to be made, he makes it. I think that is to the detriment of the W-L record. Find a core group and stick with it. Stop experimenting. It’s a hard thing to do though.
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