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Thread: David Bell Needs To Go

  1. #481
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Three weeks ago Lorenzen had soreness in his right forearm after trying out a new grip for a pitch.

    Shouldn't some intrepid reporter ask Bell and Lorenzen himself whether it went away or is persisting?
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

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  4. #482
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Quote Originally Posted by malcontent View Post
    Three weeks ago Lorenzen had soreness in his right forearm after trying out a new grip for a pitch.

    Shouldn't some intrepid reporter ask Bell and Lorenzen himself whether it went away or is persisting?
    Not if they want to keep their job

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  6. #483
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Mahle and Antone should both be available for pen work.
    This seems like the most obvious answer. Give them the bulk of innings 6-7-8.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

  7. #484
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    This seems like the most obvious answer. Give them the bulk of innings 6-7-8.
    Obvious for anyone not named David Bell...

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  9. #485
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    [QUOTE=Coopdaddy67;4129897]Who should he have put in the game other than Lorenzen? It wasn't going to be Iglesias. Bell wasn't going to waste Garrett in the 5th inning either.

    I can't blame Bell for giving Lorenzen the ball in the 5th inning, crossing his fingers and hoping he'd perform like he has most of his career. It's not like he has a bunch of great options down there.

    Unfortunately, Lorenzen has absolutely sucked this year and considering he was arguably the key to the bullpen coming into the season, that means disaster.

    Edit: I don't know how to fix Lorenzen, but at this point, he shouldn't be an option going forward. Bell has given him multiple opportunities to work himself out of it and he's failed every time.[/

    It was the 6th inning. Also, isn’t the era of “saving” pitchers until later in the game over? The criteria should be the opposing batters and leverage ( high, med, or low).

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  11. #486
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdaddy67 View Post
    Who should he have put in the game other than Lorenzen? It wasn't going to be Iglesias. Bell wasn't going to waste Garrett in the 5th inning either.
    I know it was early, but Garrett seemed like the logical choice to me.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

  12. #487
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Lorenzen doesn't look like he's throwing 100 mph -- the eyes can get fooled and mine are old, but it doesn't look close to that kind of velocity. He can't locate his off speed stuff --kinda makes one believe that maybe his arm hurts when throwing it.

  13. #488
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Quote Originally Posted by malcontent View Post
    I know it was early, but Garrett seemed like the logical choice to me.
    That's fine, but then you're still going to have to get another two innings out of the bullpen to get to Iglesias in the 9th. Garrett could have accounted for some of that, but definitely would have needed another pitcher to bridge the gap.

    I would have saved Garrett for the 8th inning. If the bullpen does their job, Garrett's on to face Yelich. If the Brewers blow it open (they did), then Garrett's not used and is well rested for Tuesday.

    The bottom line is that nothing is going to improve until the pitchers outside of Garrett and Iglesias step up.

    I'm really hopeful that Mahle is the guy that can slide into the RHP setup role. I feel like Sims has pitched well for the most part too. Get Stephenson and eventually Strop back, then hopefully you're good to go.
    Last edited by Coopdaddy67; 08-09-2020 at 10:44 PM.

  14. #489
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Something certainly could be up with Lorenzen. If he's not headed to the IL, I send him to Prasco to work out whatever's going on. May just be frustration. That was one hell of an F-bomb he unleashed today. Maybe he can get settled down, but he's basically unplayable.

    Cody Reed has also been pretty terrible.

    The weird thing with no minor leagues is we have no clue how any of the other options have been looking. De Leon? Bowman? Santillan? Give them a shot? This year is weird and figures to be even weirder with relievers -- best that I can tell, Ollie Perez is currently the best reliever in the game at a spry 58 years old.

  15. #490
    Backup First Baseman OGB's Avatar
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Quote Originally Posted by EnglishRed View Post
    Similar to my post in the game thread... My mind isn't made up on Bell, but to be honest I'm questioning his man-management after tonight. Putting Lorenzen in there tonight in that situation when it's clear his confidence is shot and he's all over the place is not good management. Lorenzen takes culpability because there's no way he should be pitching that badly but it's clear that something is wrong, mental or physical with him. it should be clear to Bell too. He was either going to sink or swim in that scenario but with what's happened for him so far this season your money would be on sinking and a good manager wouldn't have failed to spot that likelihood and the damage it could do. You have to protect your players. I guess where Lorenzen goes from here is a question for another topic, but Bell needs to have a long hard look at himself for that. He basically left the loaded revolver on the table and walked out of the room.
    He kept going back to David Hernandez last year in key spots way past the point he'd shown he didn't have it anymore.
    (Referring to Jack Hannahan signing with a Korean team)
    Since there are no teams on the moon, I guess South Korea's far enough from Cincinnati to satisfy me.
    -RichRed

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  17. #491
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    What was David Bell's #1 priority in putting Lorenzen in the game with runners on the corners and one out? Was it to help build Lorenzen's confidence? get him on track?

    Or was it to the win the game?

    I'm positive that Bell wanted to win the game, but the more I think about it, the more it seems like his #1 priority was to help Lorenzen's confidence.

    That should not have been his top priority in that moment.

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  19. #492
    Prognosis...Negative StRedlegs900's Avatar
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Hindsight is 20/20, but I agree that you can't look at Lorenzen's recent history and assume that he would be the right guy for the job there.

    I'm aware that "the plan" was to let Sonny finish the 6th and have Lorenzen start an inning with empty bases, but is it a good plan if runners reaching base completely nullifies it? Sonny hadn't looked all that dominant, so the odds of him allowing a few runners on base seemed pretty high. At that point I think you just cut your losses and consider Lorenzen burned for the day since he had already warmed up. Use your best relievers and win the game. There are only 60 of them.

    I agree with the philosophy that they need to figure out a way to get his confidence back up, but dropping him into the fire with men on in a winnable game was certainly not the time IMO.

  20. #493
    Backup First Baseman OGB's Avatar
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Man, I sure would like to have the team's hottest hitter still in the lineup in a tie game.

    Maybe that Jankowski defense can get us a W.

    Edited to add: I suppose I should've said that Jankowski baserunning can get us a W
    Last edited by OGB; 08-11-2020 at 09:34 PM.
    (Referring to Jack Hannahan signing with a Korean team)
    Since there are no teams on the moon, I guess South Korea's far enough from Cincinnati to satisfy me.
    -RichRed

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  22. #494
    Backup First Baseman OGB's Avatar
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Let's pinch run for Farmer here
    (Referring to Jack Hannahan signing with a Korean team)
    Since there are no teams on the moon, I guess South Korea's far enough from Cincinnati to satisfy me.
    -RichRed

  23. #495
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    Re: David Bell Needs To Go

    Considering Bell’s removal of Winker last night in the sixth, he probably overmanaged there. But let’s look at some of the pros and cons of this particular move.

    Favoring Bell’s move -

    1. Winker isn’t playing outfield much this year - he usually DHs. This was the odd game when he played D. Probably the game plan was to remove him with a lead. If he was the DH, he likely would have stayed in.

    2. If Jankowski came to bat in a key spot with men on base, Shogo and Ervin remained available. So it’s not like Bell was out of hitters.

    On the other hand -

    1. The sixth inning is a bit early. Winker was playing LF, not CF, Having Jesse out there a couple more innings would have been ok. You could remove him in the ninth to hold a lead.

    2. Jesse is one of the few guys hitting well, which magnifies his removal. Not too many guys you can count on right now to win that game in a late tie.

    3. Might have been more effective to use Jankowski’s speed in a more “key” pinch running spot later on.

    It worked out ok, which is the bottom line, my tilt is that the removal was premature, What’s most significant is that Winker is hitting lefties, which is a big deal.
    Last edited by Kc61; 08-12-2020 at 08:08 AM.

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