David Bell Needs To Go

[malcontent]

You know, I thought that Bell would get a reprieve (due to all the craziness) if the team tanked and didn't make the playoffs this year.

But now I'm wondering. How is BOB and Williams viewing this complete embarrassment tonight? The team reflects the manager to some degree, and this team plays uninspired baseball.

They've raised the payroll, bringing in a couple big names. All they have to be is a hair better than mediocre to end the playoff drought. And I don't see Bell leading them there.

[Coopdaddy67]

They'll probably think they should have added a quality bullpen arm or two.

[Tony Cloninger]

This seasons whacked no matter what. Reminds of that crazy 1869 season but with better results.

[Phoenix2]

David Bell priorities:

1. Have the players' backs. Say the right things, get in fights with other teams, get thrown out of games protecting them. But make sure they like you!
2. Keep pitch counts low. Get your pitcher out of there regardless of performance if that arbitrary pitch count is reached.
3. Win baseball games

You see its all of us that have the problem. We focus too much on his third priority.

[Kingspoint]

The ghost of Sparky Anderson could manage this team and the bullpen would still be a disaster.

Perhaps Dick should have gotten a quality RP or two, knowing he had the horses in the rotation to be very competitive? Instead, they added a couple question marks to an already weak bullpen and crossed their fingers.

Place a keg of beer in the dugout, get rid of the Manager, and let the players manage themselves (worked for our soccer team in High School as we finished 2nd in State).

[BluegrassRedleg]

Place a keg of beer in the dugout, get rid of the Manager, and let the players manage themselves (worked for our soccer team in High School as we finished 2nd in State).

I've said this repeatedly to the apologists. If the manager has ZERO culpability for decisions, get rid of him, name a player-manager, draw names out a hat... whatever.

For whom the BeLL toLLs.

[Griffey012]

You know, I thought that Bell would get a reprieve (due to all the craziness) if the team tanked and didn't make the playoffs this year.

But now I'm wondering. How is BOB and Williams viewing this complete embarrassment tonight? The team reflects the manager to some degree, and this team plays uninspired baseball.

They've raised the payroll, bringing in a couple big names. All they have to be is a hair better than mediocre to end the playoff drought. And I don't see Bell leading them there.

I think there is some truth to this. Bell can follow all of the analytics. But if you can’t inspire confidence and a sense of urgency out of your players, you are failing at half of the job.

[Griffey012]

FWIW Don Mattingly has the most wins in Marlins history.

[adkindo]

Hiring David Bell was an irresponsible and flawed decision. There was nothing on his resume that suggested he would be a successful MLB manager, and we were never given a reason why the FO/Ownership believed he could be a successful MLB manager in spite of having a losing record each year at lower levels. Now consider the talent influx since he was hired starting at mid season last year. The team added a starting pitcher (Bauer) that has near ace ability to add to a rotation that included two other pitchers that possessed similar ability to form one of the most talented starting pitching groups in the NL. The team added an elite level prospect from the farm system (Senzel), an All Star level 2nd Baseman (Moustakas), an All Star level Right Fielder (Castellanos), a quality lead off hitter / outfielder (Shogo). Still, over the 170ish games Bell has managed, the team has displayed very little improvement in results even as the team's talent level on the field has materially improved.

I am guessing that odds are that this statement could be reviewed after this season and it will still hold true. Now is the time to significantly disrupt this team by replacing David Bell.

[KronoRed]

FWIW Don Mattingly has the most wins in Marlins history.

I think this is because the owners of the Marlins forgot he was an employee.

[GAC]

Hiring David Bell was an irresponsible and flawed decision. There was nothing on his resume that suggested he would be a successful MLB manager, and we were never given a reason why the FO/Ownership believed he could be a successful MLB manager in spite of having a losing record each year at lower levels.

I don't know if you've notived it; but hiring first-time managers with little to no experience, but seen as innovative, has been the new trend in MLB for several years. Aaron Boone doesn't even have a managing resume. Cora? Kaplar? The list goes on. How many who want Bell fired wanted Larkin's name thrown into the hat?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-tv/947554001/

As the line between managers and statistically-driven front offices has blurred in recent years, teams have sought new field leaders more willing to implement advanced metrics into their decision-making while displaying the human touch required to deal with a 25-man roster and serving as the first line of defense with the news media.

If the clubs have to forsake experience in exchange for those skills, well, the new fellows can learn along the way.
“Maybe some of the older-school guys were reluctant to adapt to some of the analytics, and now I think some of the organizations are bringing in some younger guys that they can start along those lines,’’ said the Oakland Athletics' Bob Melvin

Organizations, for the most part, are shying away from managers with experience because they are also set in their ways (philosophy) as to how things are done, the game is to be played, which causes them to butt heads with management. Now they have skippers who are fed analytics by front offices heavily staffed to feed it to them. Just do what you are told. You can't argue with numbers.

Understand. Analytics is an intrical part of the game. Not knocking analytics. But notice I said "part". It's not the whole game. IMO, you can also strain too hard at that gnat while missing or ignoring the other valuable aspects (qualities) that comprise a winning, successful manager. One is leadership, and also, IMO, those intuitive abilites. But can analytics be counter-productive to that? It does, for the most part, do all your thinking/decision-making for you.

JMO, but with the push for a robot strikezone and umps it seems we're striving for perfection, remove all error as much as possible. And that includes a manager's subjective gametime decisions. Managers are basically put into a box because your FO is the manager now. That guy in the dugout is a Yes Man, who is given his daily briefing and statisical analysis for the oppostion that day, and don't sway from it. It's become quite "sterile" for me.

I remember on this forum, probably 10+ years ago, where a few analytical-driven posters boldly stated they could run a team with analytics alone. I think the pedulum has swung too far the other way. There may be another "correction" at some point int the future. The game is ever-changing.

Fire Bell? They'll just hire another one.

[MikeS21]

Like it or not, Bell is the manager, and will be for the foreseeable future. No one is going to fire him based on a shortened 2020 season that arguably, probably should not have even been played in the first place. This is not a baseball season. This is a feeble attempt to salvage a little bit of money by the owners and players.

[Kc61]

I hate to be overly optimistic but Reds aren’t in such bad shape. After the Brewers they have a relatively easy schedule for awhile. Cleveland’s awesome pitching is in the rear view mirror. Reds can be back to .500 or slightly above in the next ten games or so.

It’s annoying to have a slow start year after year. But other than modest player moves, I don’t see anything dramatic happening with the manager or GM.

They need is to get Moose back to solidify the lineup. The main relievers are now well rested. Some of these hitters, Winker for example, will obviously get going, some of the numbers will recover.

It’s a veteran team, I have to think we’re headed for a better period very soon.

[adkindo]

I don't know if you've notived it; but hiring first-time managers with little to no experience, but seen as innovative, has been the new trend in MLB for several years. Aaron Boone doesn't even have a managing resume. Cora? Kaplar? The list goes on. How many who want Bell fired wanted Larkin's name thrown into the hat?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-tv/947554001/



Organizations, for the most part, are shying away from managers with experience because they are also set in their ways (philosophy) as to how things are done, the game is to be played, which causes them to butt heads with management. Now they have skippers who are fed analytics by front offices heavily staffed to feed it to them. Just do what you are told. You can't argue with numbers.

Understand. Analytics is an intrical part of the game. Not knocking analytics. But notice I said "part". It's not the whole game. IMO, you can also strain too hard at that gnat while missing or ignoring the other valuable aspects (qualities) that comprise a winning, successful manager. One is leadership, and also, IMO, those intuitive abilites. But can analytics be counter-productive to that? It does, for the most part, do all your thinking/decision-making for you.

JMO, but with the push for a robot strikezone and umps it seems we're striving for perfection, remove all error as much as possible. And that includes a manager's subjective gametime decisions. Managers are basically put into a box because your FO is the manager now. That guy in the dugout is a Yes Man, who is given his daily briefing and statisical analysis for the oppostion that day, and don't sway from it. It's become quite "sterile" for me.

I remember on this forum, probably 10+ years ago, where a few analytical-driven posters boldly stated they could run a team with analytics alone. I think the pedulum has swung too far the other way. There may be another "correction" at some point int the future. The game is ever-changing.

Fire Bell? They'll just hire another one.


[/FONT][/COLOR]

I understand, but Bell did have a track record/resume as a Manager....a track record of losing more games than he won. I am curious to why it was believed he would find success at the next level when he was unable to as a minor league manager? I guess in an ironic way, I actually understand the hiring of a "baseball person" without managerial experience and "hope" their baseball knowledge, personality, etc. will translate into being a successful MLB manager more than I can hiring someone with lower level managerial experience that was unsuccessful. I am not saying there can't be logical baseball reasons (lack of talent at lower level?), but I am not aware of those items being communicated to fans when he was hired. From the outside it appeared the Reds brought Buddy Bell back into the organization in one of those "consulting" roles that many former players/managers are provided....followed by the Reds hiring Bell's son as the new Manager. In contrast when the Arizona Cardinals hired Kliff Kingsbury, they discussed why they believed his skill set and abilities would likely be more successful in the NFL than he had been in college.

[EnglishRed]

You know, I thought that Bell would get a reprieve (due to all the craziness) if the team tanked and didn't make the playoffs this year.

But now I'm wondering. How is BOB and Williams viewing this complete embarrassment tonight? The team reflects the manager to some degree, and this team plays uninspired baseball.

They've raised the payroll, bringing in a couple big names. All they have to be is a hair better than mediocre to end the playoff drought. And I don't see Bell leading them there.

I wonder if that is counterbalanced by the pressure that if we do tank this season, we can wave goodbye to Castellanos and Bauer.