Movember Awareness

[Sea Ray]

Jenny McCarthy has literally caused people harm with her words. Not comparable at all.

It is very comparable in the sense that she (and many others) have said that there is a cause and effect of vaccinations and autism. Medical science says no. In this case some like PB say that there's a cause and effect and medical science says no. It's as simple as that. Jenny McCarthy's style is secondary to that. Regardless of what you think of her personally, those are the facts.

Personally I think stress contributes to all sorts of conditions because I feel that it weakens the immune system.

[kaldaniels]

It is very comparable in the sense that she (and many others) have said that there is a cause and effect of vaccinations and autism. Medical science says no. In this case some like PB say that there's a cause and effect and medical science says no. It's as simple as that. Jenny McCarthy's style is secondary to that. Regardless of what you think of her personally, those are the facts.

Personally I think stress contributes to all sorts of conditions because I feel that it weakens the immune system.

I don’t think it is as simple as that. Studies have been done showing there is no autism/vaccine link. I haven’t seen any studies designed to rule out stress as a cause and/or trigger of alopecia areata. There’s no proof that it is a cause either so there’s that. But I don’t think the “medical world” is fully on board ruling out stress as a factor in alopecia.

[Patrick Bateman]

It is very comparable in the sense that she (and many others) have said that there is a cause and effect of vaccinations and autism. Medical science says no. In this case some like PB say that there's a cause and effect and medical science says no. It's as simple as that. Jenny McCarthy's style is secondary to that. Regardless of what you think of her personally, those are the facts.

Personally I think stress contributes to all sorts of conditions because I feel that it weakens the immune system.

Lol, a few websites does not translate to fact. Dig deeper, there are plenty of resources on the other side.

From my perspective, I have 4 unlinked doctors from different backgrounds that arrived at the same result, all coming at it from completely different angles. I am comfortable with my story on this matter, even if does not translate to the next guy.

But again, the alopecia is a completely tertiary part of the discussion, only meant to get the ball rolling on a more important mental health discussion.


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[BernieCarbo]

It is very comparable in the sense that she (and many others) have said that there is a cause and effect of vaccinations and autism. Medical science says no. In this case some like PB say that there's a cause and effect and medical science says no. It's as simple as that. Jenny McCarthy's style is secondary to that. Regardless of what you think of her personally, those are the facts.

Personally I think stress contributes to all sorts of conditions because I feel that it weakens the immune system.

The only fact is that parents who do not have their kids vaccinated should have their kids taken away. There is absolutely no science that disputes this.

[Sea Ray]

I don’t think it is as simple as that. Studies have been done showing there is no autism/vaccine link. I haven’t seen any studies designed to rule out stress as a cause and/or trigger of alopecia areata. There’s no proof that it is a cause either so there’s that. But I don’t think the “medical world” is fully on board ruling out stress as a factor in alopecia.

I don't think you nor I are experts on alopecia studies. I did post two mainstream sources that flat out stated that stress/nerves are NOT a cause. I have to think that was based on something.

[Sea Ray]

Lol, a few websites does not translate to fact. Dig deeper, there are plenty of resources on the other side.

From my perspective, I have 4 unlinked doctors from different backgrounds that arrived at the same result, all coming at it from completely different angles. I am comfortable with my story on this matter, even if does not translate to the next guy.

But again, the alopecia is a completely tertiary part of the discussion, only meant to get the ball rolling on a more important mental health discussion.

Of course a few websites doesn't translate to fact. Therefore we cannot "factually" state that this condition is caused by stress/nerves

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The only fact is that parents who do not have their kids vaccinated should have their kids taken away. There is absolutely no science that disputes this.

You consider that a fact? You give yourself away when you use the word "should". It's your opinion. What you stated is not a fact.

[BernieCarbo]

You consider that a fact? You give yourself away when you use the word "should". It's your opinion. What you stated is not a fact.

Yes, it's a fact. The word "should" does not detract from that, and even though it isn't the law, it doesn't change the fact that DHS should remove the kids from the parents.

[Sea Ray]

Yes, it's a fact. The word "should" does not detract from that, and even though it isn't the law, it doesn't change the fact that DHS should remove the kids from the parents.

You don't understand the definition of a fact. A fact cannot be debated because afterall, it's a fact. Actually it's not only an opinion, it's a far out one at that. Do you know how disruptive it is to remove kids from their parents? There are many options that fall short of what you state. You can criminally charge the parents. You can fine them. You can send in child services. Taking away the kids should be a last resort. It's your opinion but it's not a fact

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fact

[BernieCarbo]

Do you know how disruptive it is to remove kids from their parents?

Not as disruptive as having polio.

[Sea Ray]

Not as disruptive as having polio.

It's an excellent debate topic but it's not a fact

[Patrick Bateman]

Of course a few websites doesn't translate to fact. Therefore we cannot "factually" state that this condition is caused by stress/nerves

Honestly, I've gotten a diagnosis from 4 separate doctors from different fields, that have gone through intense medical schools. I'm comfortable that they are speaking in fact, more so, than what a few websites (like what is the basis for the information on these... how outdated?) were able to regurgitate after a few google searches.

I'm ok with the information on here being debated and challenged, but it also should be recognized that we as the public may not have the best information available to discern what is fact and what information is most valuable without speaking to a professional.

[Dom Heffner]

Kal, I don't understand why you continue to look to pick fights with me. I merely posted facts from reputable sources and yet you make it personal against me. You got your own issues, man.

I see this as analogous to vaccines for kids. I was reminded in very rude ways by RZers that the research shows no correlation between vaccines and autism in kids, yet I brought up anecdotal evidence from mothers who swear that it absolutely was triggered by a vaccine. RZ gave no credence to those mothers and some like Jenny McCarthy was downright chastised.

Fellow RZer is analogous to those mothers. He's saying that despite what the AAD says, it is caused by anxiety and stress. I don't know what the answer is by I think we ought not make a blanket statement that it's caused by something if the medical community is not on board. I do not rule out that it can be caused by anxiety just like I don't rule out that vaccines sometimes trigger autism in kids who are vulnerable. I hope Kal and others are as sympathetic to the Jenny McCarthys of the world as he is to our own Patrick Bateman. My guess is the answer will be no because it's personal against SR but I hope I'm wrong.

Once again: All I did was post sources of information on a disorder about which was brought to our attention in this thread. What's the problem?

Yeah, man anecdotal evidence. That just isn't what you want here, I promise you.

I can tear that apart in a paragraph, someone like Larkin Fan could do it in a sentence, probably.

Anecdotal...dude, that is not what you want in a discussion about facts and science.

[Sea Ray]

Here's an interesting study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...C4103292/#ref8

They definitely find a relationship between depression and alopecia but it appears that they attribute the hair loss as causing the depression rather than the other way around:

This implies that the effect of AA on patients is psychologically distressing. Our study supports the fact that AA is a condition of high psychological impact because it alters self-image leading to embarrassment, lack of self-confidence and lower self-esteem

Alopecia is one of many autoimmune disorders out there. I think stress/anxiety can be a cause as well as genetics and diet. Other examples of autoimmune diseases are Lupus, fibromyalga, MS, inflammatory bowel, rheumatoid arthritis and Type 1 diabetes.

Keeping your immune system healthy is central to living a healthy life. It can't be stressed enough. That includes maintaining mental health as well as controlling inflammation eating foods high in anti oxidants.

[Sea Ray]

Yeah, man anecdotal evidence. That just isn't what you want here, I promise you.

I can tear that apart in a paragraph, someone like Larkin Fan could do it in a sentence, probably.

Anecdotal...dude, that is not what you want in a discussion about facts and science.

Nothing wrong with anecdotal so long as it's identified as such. Most stories we tell here on RZ are anecdotal and that's fine. You make a great point that people like Jenny McCarthy's stories are anecdotal and that was why I brought it up as an analogy to this OP. I agree facts and scientific studies are ideal and that's why I included post #28

[kaldaniels]

Here's an interesting study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...C4103292/#ref8

They definitely find a relationship between depression and alopecia but it appears that they attribute the hair loss as causing the depression rather than the other way around:



Alopecia is one of many autoimmune disorders out there. I think stress/anxiety can be a cause as well as genetics and diet. Other examples of autoimmune diseases are Lupus, fibromyalga, MS, inflammatory bowel, rheumatoid arthritis and Type 1 diabetes.

Keeping your immune system healthy is central to living a healthy life. It can't be stressed enough. That includes maintaining mental health as well as controlling inflammation eating foods high in anti oxidants.

So now you think it (anxiety) may be a cause? I mean I guess you specifically never said “I don’t think it is a cause” but you kept hammering the point that the medical folks said it was not a cause. Maybe I’m missing something.