2019 Bengals Season - The Post Marvin era begins

[RiverRat13]

Football Outsiders is a big believer in completion percentage predicting success. I dunno what that's worth, certainly they were down on Josh Allen.

Haskins made a lot of throws this year that were NFL caliber, but I am not going to pretend I'm a QB expert. He passes my eye test, but we'll see.

Completion percentage and career college starts were the two stats bandied about 10 years ago. Not sure those still hold up but they might. Haskins has the completion percentage nailed down but WVRed is correct that career starts could be a concern for some. When you look at the statistical leaderboards for NFL QBs, Cam Newton is the only one with as few of starts as Haskins. Mitch Tribusky might be the only other NFL starter who only started one year in college. So while financially I understand that Haskins needs to go (he'll be a top 10 pick), for long term success he might be better served to stay another year.

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Alex Smith is the best Urban Meyer QB and he is average at best. His best years were because of the system he played under with Andy Reid.

Again, by that logic, you'd pass on Tua next year, right?

[WVRed]

Completion percentage and career college starts were the two stats bandied about 10 years ago. Not sure those still hold up but they might. Haskins has the completion percentage nailed down but WVRed is correct that career starts could be a concern for some. When you look at the statistical leaderboards for NFL QBs, Cam Newton is the only one with as few of starts as Haskins. Mitch Tribusky might be the only other NFL starter who only started one year in college. So while financially I understand that Haskins needs to go (he'll be a top 10 pick), for long term success he might be better served to stay another year.

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Again, by that logic, you'd pass on Tua next year, right?

I don’t understand the Tua reference. How is he connected to Urban or Ryan Day?

Unless you are referring to Sabans track record with NFL QBs.

[RedTeamGo!]

Alex Smith is the best Urban Meyer QB and he is average at best. His best years were because of the system he played under with Andy Reid.

As for Price, I’m holding out hope because he was playing through injury. He’s still an improvement over Bodine.

“Urban Meyer QB” is extremely weak.

Haskins is clearly not an “Urban Meyer QB” which is a running QB. Haskins is a pro style NFL type QB. He’s a Ryan Day QB.

Again, clearly haters.

[RiverRat13]

I don’t understand the Tua reference. How is he connected to Urban or Ryan Day?

Unless you are referring to Sabans track record with NFL QBs.

Yes, Saban's track record. You can't say on one hand that Urban Meyer's track record should somehow factor in to whether or not Dwayne Haskins will be good and on the other say you'd take Tua when Saban's track record is much worse. I don't think either coach's track record matters at all. Tua is a stud. I think Haskins is one as well. When he comes out, you're going to see the phrase "he can make all of the throws" a lot in reference to Haskins. The two knocks will be career starts and how he holds up when pressured. And I think the latter has a lot to do with the former.

[Mario-Rijo]

If you can't legitimately see the talent in Haskins you are not watching close enough. His only real issue is his mobility which can be improved a bit if he loses a few pounds. He was mobile enough in '17. Not only does he have every physical trait, he has amazing intangibles. Put him behind a great O-Line and be balanced and he will be an elite QB.

I rarely tout OSU players because I am a fan but this kid is a guaranteed special player, mark it down!

[Mario-Rijo]

On Marvin: Think he's a great instructor of technique, etc. Believe he is a great manager and a fair talent evaluator. Also believe he's a fine leader of men. But he's a subpar head coach at the NFL level because he isn't real adept at X's and O's. His best years were once he lucked into one of the best defensive play callers in the NFL in Zimmer. Zimmers philosophy remained with Guenther and his players for a season or 2 after he left and then it was all down hill. That's my take on Marvin's tenure. His legacy is he helped change a culture and shined some light on how to play football effectively in general. But that ultimately he isn't head coach material.

As far as his replacement gimme a guy who will commit to a philosophy of a balanced but slightly run heavy offense. Don't care what coaching tree but run to win.

My top guys are Bruce Arians and John Fox. If John Fox has a stud like Mixon and probably the best skill players he's ever had across the board he might win a SB. I think a veteran coach would work well with our guys.

After that I want whatever hotshot next Kyle Shanahan, Sean Payton or McVay I can find.

[KoryMac5]

Arians I think only had eyes for the Cleveland job if he was going to coach again...Fox is way too conservative on O he would drive us nuts he is basically Marvin's twin.

[GAC]

He will be a first round pick and will probably be gone by the time the Bengals pick, but I’m debating that he has only one season of success vs 2-3 seasons compared to other QBs.

If you want another comparison, Cam Newton. Both had one season to evaluate but Newton is also a completely different skillset.

If Haskins comes out I think he's making a mistake. Even history shows that the success rate for QBs who enter the draft early (forfeit college eligibility) is not too good. Yeah, he's a heck of a talent. But most analysis I have read say it's a small window when evaluating Haskins. He's only had one season as the every day starter. And he has had his struggles this year in various games that are a sign of immaturity, needing more experience (Purdue, PSU, Minnesota). He's a development QB with a high ceiling, but he still has his rough edges, his techniques still needs worked on, refined. Yeah, the QB class is weaker this year, and he'll go in the first round. I just think the kid would better serve himself staying one more year. Their's always winning the Heisman.

[Sea Ray]

“Urban Meyer QB” is extremely weak.

Haskins is clearly not an “Urban Meyer QB” which is a running QB. Haskins is a pro style NFL type QB. He’s a Ryan Day QB.

Again, clearly haters.

What's really weak is that when you disagree with someone you throw out something personal as in "you're a hater." It's weak and it's reminiscent of the RZ days of Adam Dunn. If someone did not agree with his being compared to Hall of Famers, that person was labeled an Adam Dunn hater.

Look, it's well known that college QBs are a crapshoot when it comes to making the jump to the NFL. There are very few can't miss guys. It's fair for someone to question Dwayne Haskins future in the NFL. It doesn't make them a hater. His experience is lacking and the talent level of his teammates was heads and tails better than his opponents, something that won't happen in the NFL. He's far from a sure thing as you've implied with your hater comments which are off base and uncalled for.

[RedTeamGo!]

What's really weak is that when you disagree with someone you throw out something personal as in "you're a hater." It's weak and it's reminiscent of the RZ days of Adam Dunn. If someone did not agree with his being compared to Hall of Famers, that person was labeled an Adam Dunn hater.

Look, it's well known that college QBs are a crapshoot when it comes to making the jump to the NFL. There are very few can't miss guys. It's fair for someone to question Clem Haskins future in the NFL. It doesn't make them a hater. His experience is lacking and the talent level of his teammates was heads and tails better than his opponents, something that won't happen in the NFL. He's far from a sure thing as you've implied with your hater comments which are off base and uncalled for.

A couple things, Mr Redszone Post Officer:

1.) you call people haters all the time. I’m on the P&R forum.

2.) being an OSU hater is one of only two logical conclusion from such hard hitting analysis as “he’s the next Akili Smith ..... because reasons”

3.) it’s so weird how scarred you are from Adam Dunn and the discussions about him on this forum. Let it go, man.

4.) I don’t think wvred needs your help. He’s a big boy.

5.) have a nice day, Officer

[WVRed]

“Urban Meyer QB” is extremely weak.

Haskins is clearly not an “Urban Meyer QB” which is a running QB. Haskins is a pro style NFL type QB. He’s a Ryan Day QB.

Again, clearly haters.

It’s called “H8er”

And GAC, who is one of the most objective posters when it comes to Ohio State, agrees with my assessment on sample size from Haskins. I’m not saying he’s going to be a bust, but a risk. Akili Smith was the comparison I made because it was the Bengals and they’ve drafted a QB with the same problems.

If you want a more positive comparison for a QB who had one year experience before coming out, look at Mitchell Trubisky. It goes both ways.

This is nothing personal because he played at Ohio State. Would you be defending Haskins like this if he played for TTUN? I doubt it.

And it’s not like Alex Smith is a bad comparison for an Urban Meyer QB.

[puca]

What to like about Haskins:
- He is accurate
- He has a strong arm and not afraid to go downfield
- He targets a lot of receivers (which tells me he is going through progressions)
- He didn't wilt late in games that were on the line

What to be wary about with Haskins:
- Lack of experience
- Was on the more talented team for almost all of his games
- Not great at escaping pressure or extending plays (from what I saw)

What to be wary about with any college quarterback:
- Speed of the game in the NFL is on a different level
- Defensive schemes in the NFL are much better

He is as good a bet to become a good NFL quarterback as any in the draft, but betting on quarterbacks is always risky.

[Assembly Hall]

I am trying to figure out how this morphed into a Haskins thread!!! LOL

I watch a lot of college football. And puca touched on something. Haskins was on very talented team. More than that all of tOSU's opponents were less talented, defensive wise. I ain't gonna get into a college football discussion, but the fact of the matter is that B1G teams run the ball first, thus their defenses are set up to stop the run. But that is enough about that.

As far as Haskins, he would be better served to stay in school.

As far as the Bengals. If they are indeed looking for a QB then they should keep their eyes on Philly. Kind of a unique situation brewing there. The Eagles can't afford both Wentz and Foles. Last year Foles won a Super Bowl. This year he got them into the play offs. Either way there ain't room for both. And the Bengals, if they are looking to upgrade, should be looking that way. Because I am not impressed with any of the QB's coming out.

[Redsfaithful]

It is kind of a moot point. The odds of Mike Brown moving on from Andy Dalton right now are slim to none.

It's a fundamental problem, because Dalton is very good but not good enough to carry a team. They are never going to lose enough games with Dalton to be drafting a top QB.

Dalton will turn 32 during the 2019 season, he takes care of himself and has been healthy except for the two fluke hand injuries, and so it's not as if he's going to decline physically in the next few years. My guess is he plays out his contract.

[WVRed]

It is kind of a moot point. The odds of Mike Brown moving on from Andy Dalton right now are slim to none.

It's a fundamental problem, because Dalton is very good but not good enough to carry a team. They are never going to lose enough games with Dalton to be drafting a top QB.

Dalton will turn 32 during the 2019 season, he takes care of himself and has been healthy except for the two fluke hand injuries, and so it's not as if he's going to decline physically in the next few years. My guess is he plays out his contract.

I agree with this. But I think next year or year after will be when they do move on.

I’m hoping for Trevor Lawrence. Long haired Peyton Manning.