College Football 2019

[Revering4Blue]

Rutgers has been successful once ever under one coach. Maybe he can pull it off again. But people have been making this same argument about Rutgers for a long time. It's why the Big East wanted them. It excused the Big Ten money grab involved in adding them. And in the meantime, Wazzu, Oregon State and K-State have generally been a lot better.

Wazzu's done it twice with coaches who would have been successful anywhere (including Rutgers, though it's doubtful that Leach would be hired there, as he'd be deemed a bad cultural fit).

The other two are also essentially one coach wonders. Yes, technically Oregon State's was the result of the effort of two coaches, but Dennis Erickson simply maintained what Riley had built until Riley returned to Corvallis from the NFL. K-State's essentially been the result of a once-in-a-lifetime hire, but I believe that they'll be fine moving forward.

That said, I wouldn't lose an ounce of sleep if Rutgers bolted for the AAC. Many equate the program's ceiling with that of Temple, though I'm not one of them. Quite honestly, I'd love to wave a proverbial magic wand, sending major conference alignments back to to 2002. I miss the original Big 12 alignment with Nebraska, Mizzou and Colorado, the Big East with Miami, Virginia Tech, Louisville, Cincy et all. I do, however, love the addition of Utah to the then-Pac 10.

To tie this back to the original topic of B1G expansion, the most pressing issues with the conference, IMHO: 1)As mentioned, divisional imbalance. 2)Several resource-heavy programs -- most notably, Illinois and Minnesota (though, IMHO, Fleck has them back on the right track) -- underachieving almost annually. I didn't mention Nebraska as underachieving as I'm not sure of the program's ceiling in the post Big 12 era. Perhaps a program that equates with the Wisky program (which isn't chopped liver) is the best you can hope for. A return to the Osborne level of success seems unrealistic, to say the least.

[Boston Red]

I don't mind your idea re: 2002 with a few caveats....Louisville and Cincy were never in the Big East with Miami. Louisville, Cincy, USF and UConn were a reaction to Miami and VaTech bolting for the ACC (with BC following a year later). So take the 2002 Big East (minus Temple) and put Louisville and Cincy with them (replace USF with UCF because USF is garbage) and there you have it. TCU still is in the Big XII (they were in C-USA in 2002), and Utah is still in the Pac-12. Otherwise, 2002 is about perfect with six power conferences.

(As a side note, as a Xavier guy I would also still need the "basketball" schools of the Big East to break off and keep the name - so the Big East would have to be called something else for football; in exchange, they get to keep UConn!).

[Revering4Blue]

Well, they did suck for a really long time before Gary Barnett got them going with that miracle Rose Bowl team in 1995 (that lost to Miami (OH)?!?). And they've still only played two NCAA basketball tournament games ever (one appearance). So they've historically been really bad.

They did indeed lose to Miami (OH) by two points at home in '95.
The Miami HC - Future Northwestern HC Randy Walker (RIP).
The Miami OC - Future Hoosiers HC Terry Hoeppner (RIP).

[Revering4Blue]

I don't mind your idea re: 2002 with a few caveats....Louisville and Cincy were never in the Big East with Miami. Louisville, Cincy, USF and UConn were a reaction to Miami and VaTech bolting for the ACC (with BC following a year later). So take the 2002 Big East (minus Temple) and put Louisville and Cincy with them (replace USF with UCF because USF is garbage) and there you have it. TCU still is in the Big XII (they were in C-USA in 2002), and Utah is still in the Pac-12. Otherwise, 2002 is about perfect with six power conferences.

(As a side note, as a Xavier guy I would also still need the "basketball" schools of the Big East to break off and keep the name - so the Big East would have to be called something else for football; in exchange, they get to keep UConn!).

Good thinking.

UCF has the higher ceiling, but at the time, Jim Leavitt's USF teams were pretty good, IIRC.

Along this line of thinking - and I may be hammered for this, but whatever - I'd also reinstate the Southwest Conference with Arkansas. That would take care of the Texas schools in then-Conference USA, leaving Marquette, Xavier and Depaul to form a rejuvenated Conference USA basketball only conference with members of the Atlantic 10>

[adkindo]

Good thinking.

UCF has the higher ceiling, but at the time, Jim Leavitt's USF teams were pretty good, IIRC.

USF was ranked as high as #2 in the country under Leavitt. Both schools should have a very similar "ceiling". Both are massive universities that are in extremely rich recruiting areas. Actually, USF had only been a program since 1997, and went D1 (FBS) in 2001......while UCF has had a program since 1979 and went D1 (FBS) in 1996. I think USF was hurt to some degree by being a "BCS" school, then getting knocked down to a G5 school....a very real budget adjustment.

[adkindo]

I don't mind your idea re: 2002 with a few caveats....Louisville and Cincy were never in the Big East with Miami. Louisville, Cincy, USF and UConn were a reaction to Miami and VaTech bolting for the ACC (with BC following a year later). So take the 2002 Big East (minus Temple) and put Louisville and Cincy with them (replace USF with UCF because USF is garbage) and there you have it. TCU still is in the Big XII (they were in C-USA in 2002), and Utah is still in the Pac-12. Otherwise, 2002 is about perfect with six power conferences.

(As a side note, as a Xavier guy I would also still need the "basketball" schools of the Big East to break off and keep the name - so the Big East would have to be called something else for football; in exchange, they get to keep UConn!).

so we are rebuilding college athletics around Xavier? I am just kidding with you. There will never be another basketball conference like the old Big East when there was the BBall only schools, Notre Dame, WVU, Syracuse, Boston College, Miami, UConn, etc. While all of those brands are not as large today, when viewed through the prism of what they were in the 80's & 90's....just a powerhouse basketball conference that will never be duplicated.

[Revering4Blue]

USF was ranked as high as #2 in the country under Leavitt. Both schools should have a very similar "ceiling". Both are massive universities that are in extremely rich recruiting areas. Actually, USF had only been a program since 1997, and went D1 (FBS) in 2001......while UCF has had a program since 1979 and went D1 (FBS) in 1996. I think USF was hurt to some degree by being a "BCS" school, then getting knocked down to a G5 school....a very real budget adjustment.

UCF's enrollment is around 65,000. But you're right....it's likely splitting hairs between the two schools as far as projected ceiling is concerned. IIRC, USF beat a then-solid Pitt team in their inaugural D1 season at Heinz field. I honestly remember little about UCF football before O'Leary took over the reins there, other than Daunte Culpepper and Terry Bradshaw's former backup QB (Mike Kruczek) coaching them.

[Assembly Hall]

To tie this back to the original topic of B1G expansion, the most pressing issues with the conference, IMHO: 1)As mentioned, divisional imbalance. 2)Several resource-heavy programs -- most notably, Illinois and Minnesota (though, IMHO, Fleck has them back on the right track) -- underachieving almost annually. I didn't mention Nebraska as underachieving as I'm not sure of the program's ceiling in the post Big 12 era. Perhaps a program that equates with the Wisky program (which isn't chopped liver) is the best you can hope for. A return to the Osborne level of success seems unrealistic, to say the least.

The divisions suck in the B1G, I lay that on Nebraska. The Huskers definitely are not on the level of Wisconsin and they ain't close to Iowa either, nor do I expect them to be in the near future. As far as Minny and the Illini, I cut the Gophers slack as it is a football poor HS state but they do the best they can admirably. Illinois is a different story that I have no answer for.

[BuckeyeRed27]

The divisions suck in the B1G, I lay that on Nebraska. The Huskers definitely are not on the level of Wisconsin and they ain't close to Iowa either, nor do I expect them to be in the near future. As far as Minny and the Illini, I cut the Gophers slack as it is a football poor HS state but they do the best they can admirably. Illinois is a different story that I have no answer for.

I do think Nebraska will at least get to the Wisconsin/Iowa level soon. Frost is a good coach and they seem to be recruiting better. I don’t think they can get to the Ohio State/Penn State type level consistently though, which to your point makes the divisions now unbalanced. It’s very easy to rotate them so you aren’t locked into perpetual imbalance.

[bucksfan2]

I do think Nebraska will at least get to the Wisconsin/Iowa level soon. Frost is a good coach and they seem to be recruiting better. I don’t think they can get to the Ohio State/Penn State type level consistently though, which to your point makes the divisions now unbalanced. It’s very easy to rotate them so you aren’t locked into perpetual imbalance.

Oh I think Nebraska will surpass the Iowa level very shortly. In looking at recruiting rankings, last season Nebraska's class was massive (which helps to the cumulative) but they were ranked 4th in the B1G and in the top 20 in the nation. Iowa on the other hand was ranked 9th in the B1G and 41st in the nation. In 2018, Nebraska was 4th in the B1G and 23rd in the nation. Iowa was 8th and 39th respectively. If Frost continues to recruit at a high(er) level, they will surpass Iowa shortly. I think they have a chance to challenge for the West title this season and will be in the favorite next year.

I don't see them returning to the peak Nebraska, but I can see them being a top 10-15 program year in year out.

[adkindo]

UCF's enrollment is around 65,000. But you're right....it's likely splitting hairs between the two schools as far as projected ceiling is concerned. IIRC, USF beat a then-solid Pitt team in their inaugural D1 season at Heinz field. I honestly remember little about UCF football before O'Leary took over the reins there, other than Daunte Culpepper and Terry Bradshaw's former backup QB (Mike Kruczek) coaching them.

yeah, I think I saw UCF was coming in right under 69K this fall, and USF was right under 52K this fall. I lived here and Kruczek and Culpepper is about all I recall from that era also....that and their home games were downtown @ the Citrus Bowl. I recall when Levitt (USF) recruited me out of high school. I knew Levitt because he heavily recruited a close friend and teammate a year earlier when he was the DC @ Kansas State....and lightly recruited me because he was recruiting my friend. I actually had a negative perception of Levitt because he did my friend wrong by pulling the offer after my friend had been verbally committed for months. Still it was a chance to remain close to home, so I did an official visit. So I meet with them in the morning in like a conference room in one of the main halls on campus...then I do a campus tour with the DB coach. One of the first things I recall thinking sucked was for the first year or 2, they would be using a makeshift locker room in the bottom of the Sun Dome, and it resembled a junior high locker room. Finally it is time to go set down with Levitt to wrap up the visit. We have to use a F-150 4x4 to drive through this dirt/mud construction looking site with no buildings and two junky looking trailers setting in the middle of it.....they are also knows as the football offices. He goes through his talking points about how special it would be to build a program from scratch, and I recall him saying we will be D1 within 5 years. I left there thinking that man had lost his mind....you have a dirt field, no locker rooms, no practice field, and 2 used trailers and you think I am buying you are going D1 in 5 years! That was 1996.....USF became D1 in 2001, so yeah the joke was on me. Six years later they were #2 in the AP Poll.

[Boston Red]

Six years later they were #2 in the AP Poll.

Cool story! And definitely impressive that they climbed so far so quick. Just a note, though....the stay was REALLY brief. They immediately lost consecutive games to Rutgers, UConn and Cincinnati to fall out of the polls and have never really recovered. Kind of amazing that Leavitt never got a crack at another DI job after what he did at USF. And it's kind of amazing that his leash was so short there, too. They never got below mediocre when he was there.

[Revering4Blue]

Cool story! And definitely impressive that they climbed so far so quick. Just a note, though....the stay was REALLY brief. They immediately lost consecutive games to Rutgers, UConn and Cincinnati to fall out of the polls and have never really recovered. Kind of amazing that Leavitt never got a crack at another DI job after what he did at USF. And it's kind of amazing that his leash was so short there, too. They never got below mediocre when he was there.

IIRC, Leavitt interviewed for the IU job in late ‘01 before DiNardo was ultimately hired.

[adkindo]

Cool story! And definitely impressive that they climbed so far so quick. Just a note, though....the stay was REALLY brief. They immediately lost consecutive games to Rutgers, UConn and Cincinnati to fall out of the polls and have never really recovered. Kind of amazing that Leavitt never got a crack at another DI job after what he did at USF. And it's kind of amazing that his leash was so short there, too. They never got below mediocre when he was there.

I have never really got the full story....but something happened when he left K-State and Bill Snyder turned on him. I have heard for years that Snyder never missed an opportunity to make a call if he heard Leavitt was being considered for a position to try to hurt his chances at getting the position. Also, supposedly many boosters were interested in bringing Levitt back when Snyder retired (I think the 1st time), but Snyder refused to step down if Leavitt was considered.

[Revering4Blue]

The divisions suck in the B1G, I lay that on Nebraska. The Huskers definitely are not on the level of Wisconsin and they ain't close to Iowa either, nor do I expect them to be in the near future. As far as Minny and the Illini, I cut the Gophers slack as it is a football poor HS state but they do the best they can admirably. Illinois is a different story that I have no answer for.

Yeah, the football talent in the state of Minnesota lags significantly behind the HS hoops talent. But the administrative dollars are there to secure a decent coach. For example, they outbid Purdue for Mason. In short, that’s still a program, especially given the current divisional lineup, that should rarely (if ever) miss out on a bowl bid.