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Thread: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

  1. #586
    Member adkindo's Avatar
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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Did they interview anyone else? I assumed Beard was off the table when the Texas job opened (supposedly his dream job). If he will not leave for Texas, many assume he will not leave for anywhere at the current time.
    “The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”
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  3. #587
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    The difference is Juwan Howard is a former player that played in these recruits lifetimes. He has more street cred. Woodson last played in 1990. I have been following basketball most of my life, since basically the early 90s, and I have no clue who Woodson is. The dude was an assistant on the Knicks. Who is this hire for? 60 year old Hoosiers fans?

    This must have been like Plan R, seriously.
    The Juwan hire at Michigan was interesting, but I think Howard still had some cred with a lot of the kids. Maybe I am of a generation where the Fab 5 seemed cool, but they still have some pull in today's game. If you mention Fab 5 to kids today, they probably know what school and probably could rattle off a player (or two.)

    When I heard Mike Woodson it kinda shocked me. Its not that I don't think he can be a good coach, its just a "who is that?"

    As an outsider, here are my concerns:

    -Its obvious that IU really prioritizes the past, but did they do that to an extent where they got a subpar coach?
    -Would the team be best served to hire someone who would bring tradition into the fray but not be a Bobby Knight disciple? It seems as long as Knight is hovering around the program, they can't move forward.
    -I am curious how a guy who has never coached at the college level, who is older, will recruit. He will have to have assistants who can recruit their tail off. And as good as Thad can be as a coach, I don't think he has it in recruiting anymore.
    -I thought I saw somewhere a beat reporter confirmed through Holtmann that IU did reach out to him.
    -If I were a fan of a team and they made this type of hire, I would be underwhelmed. Its a different sport, but it kinda reminds me of when OSU was looking for a football coach and Glenn Mason lobbied hard for the job.

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  5. #588
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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    The Juwan hire at Michigan was interesting, but I think Howard still had some cred with a lot of the kids. Maybe I am of a generation where the Fab 5 seemed cool, but they still have some pull in today's game. If you mention Fab 5 to kids today, they probably know what school and probably could rattle off a player (or two.)

    When I heard Mike Woodson it kinda shocked me. Its not that I don't think he can be a good coach, its just a "who is that?"

    As an outsider, here are my concerns:

    -Its obvious that IU really prioritizes the past, but did they do that to an extent where they got a subpar coach?
    -Would the team be best served to hire someone who would bring tradition into the fray but not be a Bobby Knight disciple? It seems as long as Knight is hovering around the program, they can't move forward.
    -I am curious how a guy who has never coached at the college level, who is older, will recruit. He will have to have assistants who can recruit their tail off. And as good as Thad can be as a coach, I don't think he has it in recruiting anymore.
    -I thought I saw somewhere a beat reporter confirmed through Holtmann that IU did reach out to him.
    -If I were a fan of a team and they made this type of hire, I would be underwhelmed. Its a different sport, but it kinda reminds me of when OSU was looking for a football coach and Glenn Mason lobbied hard for the job.
    I think those are all reasonable concerns and reasons for skepticism though I don't think Juwan Howard's playing days really mean much to the players as much as his time as an NBA coach.
    I think it's not so obvious that IU has prioritized the past with their most recent hires and I think Sampson, Crean and Miller's failure to truly incorporate the past worked to their detriment.
    Having a guy who's obviously a "Knight guy" but won't necessarily be stuck in doing things "how Bob Knight did them" is probably the best way to move past Bob Knight's memories hovering over the team.

    Recruiting is obviously the area that will need the most attention, though that's true of every potential hire. One thing Archie really failed at was incorporating the big name recruits that he worked so hard to win into winning dynamic with the rest of the team. It's not like he was a bad recruiter, it's just the pieces never really fit.

    I was very much underwhelmed initially but my skepticism waned with the addition of Matta, will be interesting to see how active of a role he plays.

    If I had to guess, this was realistically the third or fourth option. After Stevens undoubtedly said no, there was obviously an interview with Matta, and I'm sure feelers out to other big name coaches. When it became clear that whomever was hired was going to have some warts that needed smoothing over, IU went with a rather unIU-like bold choice.

    In some ways, I think the untraditional nature of the move provides some cover for the AD and university if the move doesn't work out. Worst case they're spinning the wheel again in three years and have earned the capital to tell the alumni to F off, we've tried it with an IU guy and it didn't work. If they hire Dana Altman or Porter Moser or Eric Musselman, and that doesn't work? IU's getting further along in its reputation as a coaching graveyard.

    As for Holtmann, it sounds like there was some discussion between contacts of contacts from both sides, but there's no way that would have made sense for Holtmann to leave a good situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Honest I can't say it any better than Hoosier Red did in his post, he sums it up basically perfectly.

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  7. #589
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    @HoosierRed.

    Maybe you can fill be in more, but I don't quite understand what role Matta is going to have. What Thad great was his ability to recruit and some pretty strong regional factors aided into that. There were some OSU fans (I was not) who did not think he was a good bench coach. And maybe there is a sour taste in my mouth for the way he ended at OSU, basically ran the program into the ground at the end of his tenure. I don't know what he gives IU with the exception of a built in head coach if things go wrong with Woodson.

    I don't like the comparisons to Howard because Howard was still a relevant player in the current recruit's lifetime. Not to mention that he played alongside LeBron in Miami. Howard still had the cool factor about him, he played on the Fab 5, played in the NBA, and played with LeBron.

    What was the rush to hire Woodson? Is there something in the calendar that said you needed a coach by a certain date? I ask this because I would have gone hard after Musselman or Porter Moser once their season came to an end. Is Woodson really a guy you needed to get at this time? I don't really follow BB recruiting all that much, but I would imagine the 2021 recruits are all but committed for next season. IU will need to go HARD after 2022 with a coach who has never done it before. They will have to go hard after transfers and this has the makings of a season that mirrors Cronin's first at UC.

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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    @HoosierRed.

    Maybe you can fill be in more, but I don't quite understand what role Matta is going to have. What Thad great was his ability to recruit and some pretty strong regional factors aided into that. There were some OSU fans (I was not) who did not think he was a good bench coach. And maybe there is a sour taste in my mouth for the way he ended at OSU, basically ran the program into the ground at the end of his tenure. I don't know what he gives IU with the exception of a built in head coach if things go wrong with Woodson.

    I don't like the comparisons to Howard because Howard was still a relevant player in the current recruit's lifetime. Not to mention that he played alongside LeBron in Miami. Howard still had the cool factor about him, he played on the Fab 5, played in the NBA, and played with LeBron.

    What was the rush to hire Woodson? Is there something in the calendar that said you needed a coach by a certain date? I ask this because I would have gone hard after Musselman or Porter Moser once their season came to an end. Is Woodson really a guy you needed to get at this time? I don't really follow BB recruiting all that much, but I would imagine the 2021 recruits are all but committed for next season. IU will need to go HARD after 2022 with a coach who has never done it before. They will have to go hard after transfers and this has the makings of a season that mirrors Cronin's first at UC.
    I honestly don't think Matta's a fallback option in any way. I think he was the first option until it became apparent that he just couldn't do it physically.
    I see him more as organizational support piece for Woodson that will help ease the transition from pros to college. Overall I think he's going to play a role similar to GM's in NBA.
    One aspect I imagine they'll look to mine was his talent for helping develop coaches at Butler and Xavier. (Although this took a big hit with Sean Millers recruiting indiscretions)

    Recruits are one thing, but this year in particular the transfer market is lit.
    At last count, roughly eleventy million bazilllion players have entered the transfer portal. Assuming he's able to convince the majority of IU's entries in the portal to come back, job one is bringing in as many as possible.

    As for Musselman or Porter, those guys would have been reasonable hires. There's nothing that necessarily excites me about them either. Porter in particular is a guy who's resume looks pretty lacking on the whole. So if there's no certified home run, why not go off the board with a guy who;
    a) has NBA coaching experience which players will like and b) has the ability to unite the fan base for the first time in 20 years.

    It may not work, and there's plenty of valid reasons why it won't.
    But let's face it, taking the conventional hire has resulted in an embarrassing 7 tournament appearances in 20 years.

    So I have no problem with taking the bold step into the unknown. At this point, what does IU have to lose?
    Last edited by Hoosier Red; 03-29-2021 at 05:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Honest I can't say it any better than Hoosier Red did in his post, he sums it up basically perfectly.

  9. #591
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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Word is Woody wants to add Larry Brown to the staff. Great coach but at 80 not sure what he brings to the table, plus every college program he’s been involved with ends up on probation. I’m all for adding him as a consultant though.
    When I see the 2016 Reds, I see a 100 loss team and no direction.

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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Sounds like Larry Brown will be the bag man.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfanmia View Post
    Word is Woody wants to add Larry Brown to the staff. Great coach but at 80 not sure what he brings to the table, plus every college program he’s been involved with ends up on probation. I’m all for adding him as a consultant though.
    I don't think it will be for one of the assistant coach slots. Woj said non-recruiting role, so I can't imagine he would use one of his three assistant coaching slots on a guy who won't recruit when that's what Woodson will need the most help with.

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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Quote Originally Posted by BillDoran View Post
    Worse hires have proven successful. I hope Woodson's great, and people forget he had a four-year stretch where he was considered a good NBA coach.

    The Matta thing is weird, and it feels like Dolson is trying to compensate for something, especially given the simultaneous announcement. Let Woodson sink or swim. No reason to have a meddling ex-coach around. The most predictable part of this whole thing is the drumbeat for Matta to step-in whenever there's adversity.

    Certainly, not the obvious hire and lots of reason to doubt the choice, but, again, hope he's a homerun.
    I think Matta is compensating for the fact that Woodson doesn't have recruiting experience. Woodson doesn't need help with the coaching side, and I doubt Matta is going to be doing much there. But in helping him build relationships, assisting with recruiting and program building, etc., he can be really helpful.

    It's definitely not a home run, but I think there's a lot of upside if he can get the right assistants. He was a good NBA coach, and his teams got better almost every year. He brought the Hawks and Knicks more success than they had seen in a long time, and both teams have been significantly worse since he left, so he clearly knows how to coach. He had really good offensive teams, which would be a nice change from the last few years. And his NBA players seemed to love him. I saw an interview where Carmelo and JJ Redick were speaking very highly of him. A number of his former players were excited about the hire, which speaks well to how he relates to players. The big question will definitely be recruiting. It'll be interesting to see how he's able to navigate the transfer portal this year, both in hopefully bringing back a number of IU guys that went in, as well as finding some top guys that can help right away.

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  16. #595
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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Hi guys, I am back. Did I miss anything?
    Fake news

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  18. #596
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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    Hi guys, I am back. Did I miss anything?
    Nope...still looking!!!
    A smooth sea never made a skilled sailor!

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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Durham to Providence.
    Fake news

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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Duncomb and Gunn confirm their commitments. Stewart going to stay.
    Fake news

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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Jackson-Davis coming back is huge!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    The Mike Woodson hire (and all the weird Thad Matta and Larry Brown stuff) gives off the same energy as Herm Edwards going to Arizona State. On the surface, it made no sense. It seems destined to fail spectacularly. But maybe it's just crazy enough to work?

    Love seeing early buy-in from recruits and players.

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