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Thread: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

  1. #631
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Quote Originally Posted by dubc47834 View Post
    If OSU was getting him to be a main contributor if healthy I would agree, but I don't think he will be anything other than a role player at OSU. Will he give them some minutes if he stays healthy, sure, but I wouldn't count on health. Out of all the guys who entered the transfer portal, Brunk was the least of my concerns!
    My point is OSU didn’t have one big man last year to throw at monsters like Dickinson, Cockburn, etc. Centers scored at will. Dudes like Brunk and Diallo are big bodies they can throw at opposing big men. It was the absolute biggest need of the offseason and this helps address it. I absolutely love Kyle Young, but the man is like 6’6”.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Quote Originally Posted by Playadlc View Post
    https://twitter.com/AboveTheParquet/...79513280360450

    Stevens turned down 7 years at 70 million. Would have made him the highest paid coach in college basketball history.
    I know this is old news, but if it was me, I would be the new coach @ IU if that entire $70 Million was guaranteed. Let's be honest, what are the odds that he survives 7 more years in Boston? It is possible, but if he does not get them in the Finals soon, the odds are low. Boston is a great city, but in this era it is not always the easiest place to attract FA's. There is still some stigma out there for some black athletes (although I assume is fading quickly), but more importantly a lot of these guys are not crazy about living in a cold NE city except NY.

    It would have been hard to fail @ IU because I imagine recruiting would have been easy for at least the first few years as recruits would flock to play for a big name coach that knows what it takes to succeed in the NBA. I doubt a recruit in state would even consider leaving the state. Oh well, guess he had his reasons.
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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Fake news

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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Quote Originally Posted by adkindo View Post
    I know this is old news, but if it was me, I would be the new coach @ IU if that entire $70 Million was guaranteed. Let's be honest, what are the odds that he survives 7 more years in Boston? It is possible, but if he does not get them in the Finals soon, the odds are low. Boston is a great city, but in this era it is not always the easiest place to attract FA's. There is still some stigma out there for some black athletes (although I assume is fading quickly), but more importantly a lot of these guys are not crazy about living in a cold NE city except NY.

    It would have been hard to fail @ IU because I imagine recruiting would have been easy for at least the first few years as recruits would flock to play for a big name coach that knows what it takes to succeed in the NBA. I doubt a recruit in state would even consider leaving the state. Oh well, guess he had his reasons.
    For me, I think what some people fail to realize is, even if Stevens is fired in the next year or two he won't be out of a job for longer than a month. I don't think he wants to go back to college and deal with the headache of recruiting. Also, is the few extra million dollars a year at IU worth the headache of recruiting and dealing with the IU fanbase. I wouldn't think so. These last few years the fanbase has been absolutely brutal, and I don't blame Stevens if he didn't want to coach at IU because of this. I know 10 million a year for people like us is hard to turn down, damn near impossible too. But when you already have millions, turning down a few extra isn't hard when you realize its not worth it. Plus, if Woodson fails, the IU job will still be there in 4-5 years.
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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Fake news

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  10. #636
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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    My point is OSU didn’t have one big man last year to throw at monsters like Dickinson, Cockburn, etc. Centers scored at will. Dudes like Brunk and Diallo are big bodies they can throw at opposing big men. It was the absolute biggest need of the offseason and this helps address it. I absolutely love Kyle Young, but the man is like 6’6”.
    Young list at 6'8" and I think he is capable of guarding the post. What I do think a big does is it frees up Young and Liddell from guarding a big the entire game. If you can throw Brunk or Diallo (if he ever makes a contribution) at Cockburn or Dickinson for 10-20 minutes a game, that can wear the opponent out while freeing up Young/Liddell to operate on a smaller player.

    I do think you have to realize that Garza and Cockburn were both very good at running the court. They could get up and down better than most bigs their size. When Young/Liddell was on the court, they were banging on both ends and they weren't really able to pull them away from the basket to drive.

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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Young list at 6'8" and I think he is capable of guarding the post. What I do think a big does is it frees up Young and Liddell from guarding a big the entire game. If you can throw Brunk or Diallo (if he ever makes a contribution) at Cockburn or Dickinson for 10-20 minutes a game, that can wear the opponent out while freeing up Young/Liddell to operate on a smaller player.

    I do think you have to realize that Garza and Cockburn were both very good at running the court. They could get up and down better than most bigs their size. When Young/Liddell was on the court, they were banging on both ends and they weren't really able to pull them away from the basket to drive.
    Just a heads up for you Bucknut fans...Joey is a career 58% FT shooter. In his one year at IU he shot 45% from the stripe.
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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    Just a heads up for you Bucknut fans...Joey is a career 58% FT shooter. In his one year at IU he shot 45% from the stripe.
    Yea well Washington was a great FT shooter and missed couple. Same with Liddell, around a 75% shooter and missed a key FT.

    I don't expect him to be on the court in a late game situation unless they are subbing offense for defense.

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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Yea well Washington was a great FT shooter and missed couple. Same with Liddell, around a 75% shooter and missed a key FT.

    I don't expect him to be on the court in a late game situation unless they are subbing offense for defense.
    I really can't say anything. A few years back IU got Bielfeldt from Michigan and he was a player for the Hoosiers. The Bucks very well could have that with Joey.
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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Quote Originally Posted by adkindo View Post
    I know this is old news, but if it was me, I would be the new coach @ IU if that entire $70 Million was guaranteed. Let's be honest, what are the odds that he survives 7 more years in Boston? It is possible, but if he does not get them in the Finals soon, the odds are low. Boston is a great city, but in this era it is not always the easiest place to attract FA's. There is still some stigma out there for some black athletes (although I assume is fading quickly), but more importantly a lot of these guys are not crazy about living in a cold NE city except NY.

    It would have been hard to fail @ IU because I imagine recruiting would have been easy for at least the first few years as recruits would flock to play for a big name coach that knows what it takes to succeed in the NBA. I doubt a recruit in state would even consider leaving the state. Oh well, guess he had his reasons.
    The response from dubc more or less echoed my thoughts on this subject. But I totally get what you are saying here.

    Given that this past IU coaching search was conducted without the use of an external search firm, as opposed to the coaching search from four years ago, details provided to me by a credible source in both cases were very sketchy this time. But it's my understanding that, just as with Donovan, the IU brass were fully prepared to back up the Brinks truck to land Stevens. But in both cases, though, neither candidate (per my understanding) had yet to be presented with a formal offer for the job. With Donovan, the sticking points were his reluctance to leave his then-OKC job prior to the end of the Thunder's season and Sam Presti selling Billy on a quick rebuild that, as it turned out, never really materialized.

    Fast forward to the pursuit of Brad Stevens, again, dubc nailed it. But there were/are whispers that Stevens is being groomed to eventually take over for Danny Ainge, while also continuing on as head coach as long as he desires. The entire speech declaring himself a Mass"""" was bizarre, to say the least, and comes across as a desperate plea to appeal to a Celtics fanbase that (idiotically, IMO) is misplacing blame for the Celts' underachievement, as Ainge has basically overplayed his hand with franchise assets, when he should have been more aggressive while cashing in on assets. But I digress..

    In any case, it's safe to say that if neither BD or BS jumped at the chance when the IU job was open - when they were assuredly both aware that they could have been dominant - they're now NBA lifers, and it seems a waste of time to even mention them as future NCAA coaching candidates.
    Last edited by Revering4Blue; 04-21-2021 at 07:07 PM.
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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    The response from dubc more or less echoed my thoughts on this subject. But I totally get what you are saying here.

    Given that this past IU coaching search was conducted without the use of an external search firm, as opposed to the coaching search from four years ago, details provided to me by a credible source in both cases were very sketchy this time. But it's my understanding that, just as with Donovan, the IU brass were fully prepared to back up the Brinks truck to land Stevens. But in both cases, though, neither candidate (per my understanding) had yet to be presented with a formal offer for the job. With Donovan, the sticking points were his reluctance to leave his then-OKC job prior to the end of the Thunder's season and Sam Presti selling Billy on a quick rebuild that, as it turned out, never really materialized.

    Fast forward to the pursuit of Brad Stevens, again, dubc nailed it. But there were/are whispers that Stevens is being groomed to eventually take over for Danny Ainge, while also continuing on as head coach as long as he desires. The entire speech declaring himself a Mass"""" was bizarre, to say the least, and comes across as a desperate plea to appeal to a Celtics fanbase that (idiotically, IMO) is misplacing blame for the Celts' underachievement, as Ainge has basically overplayed his hand with franchise assets, when he should have been more aggressive while cashing in on assets. But I digress..

    In any case, it's safe to say that if neither BD or BS jumped at the chance when the IU job was open - when they were assuredly both aware that they could have been dominant - they're now NBA lifers, and it seems a waste of time to even mention them as future NCAA coaching candidates.
    I listened to John Fienstein's book about mid major college basketball recently. He talked about Stevens and how he was a little queasy when he signed his last contract extension at Butler and how much more he made than everyone at the school. I thought that was interesting, and probably a reason he will never head back to the college game.

    Donovan is the golden goose that every big time program thinks they can get. OSU thought there was a chance when Holtmann was hired. But I think the more NIL and the transfer portal effect the college game, the more hesitant some coaches are going to be to jump back into that mess.

    IMO every season may become a battle to recruit, keep your current roster together, and fend off the transfer portal. I do think the NIL aspect of the game will entice better players to head to college instead of the G-League. You are far more marketable playing for IU than you are playing for the Fort Wayne Mad Ants.

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  18. #642
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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I listened to John Fienstein's book about mid major college basketball recently. He talked about Stevens and how he was a little queasy when he signed his last contract extension at Butler and how much more he made than everyone at the school. I thought that was interesting, and probably a reason he will never head back to the college game.

    Donovan is the golden goose that every big time program thinks they can get. OSU thought there was a chance when Holtmann was hired. But I think the more NIL and the transfer portal effect the college game, the more hesitant some coaches are going to be to jump back into that mess.

    IMO every season may become a battle to recruit, keep your current roster together, and fend off the transfer portal. I do think the NIL aspect of the game will entice better players to head to college instead of the G-League. You are far more marketable playing for IU than you are playing for the Fort Wayne Mad Ants.
    Once the newness wears off, I'm not sure one-time-transfer and NIL don't make things easier for a college coach.

    With NIL, that's already going on. I imagine there'll be an initial arms race, but the teams with the big boosters are--sit down for this--already paying their players. So, I think NIL will just put it out in the open. It'll make some a little queasy out of the gates, but it's ultimately for the good of the players.

    As far as one-time-transfer, you just go shopping every offseason. In a way, it's just shifting your recruiting efforts from high school-only to casting a wider net. High school recruiting will be less important for many schools. Relationships (treating your players like humans) and development will be key. Of course, there will be tampering and poaching, but I imagine most coaches will know which players are committed and which are looking around. I'm not saying it'll be a great deal easier, but I don't think it'll be that much harder; more just an adjustment.

    That said, Stevens and Donovan aren't coming back to college. I think being an NBA coach is a superior gig. And save a few exceptions, most prefer it. It's better basketball. It's adults (that may or may not listen to you). There's more strategy. There's less babysitting.

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  20. #643
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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Quote Originally Posted by BillDoran View Post
    Once the newness wears off, I'm not sure one-time-transfer and NIL don't make things easier for a college coach.

    With NIL, that's already going on. I imagine there'll be an initial arms race, but the teams with the big boosters are--sit down for this--already paying their players. So, I think NIL will just put it out in the open. It'll make some a little queasy out of the gates, but it's ultimately for the good of the players.

    As far as one-time-transfer, you just go shopping every offseason. In a way, it's just shifting your recruiting efforts from high school-only to casting a wider net. High school recruiting will be less important for many schools. Relationships (treating your players like humans) and development will be key. Of course, there will be tampering and poaching, but I imagine most coaches will know which players are committed and which are looking around. I'm not saying it'll be a great deal easier, but I don't think it'll be that much harder; more just an adjustment.

    That said, Stevens and Donovan aren't coming back to college. I think being an NBA coach is a superior gig. And save a few exceptions, most prefer it. It's better basketball. It's adults (that may or may not listen to you). There's more strategy. There's less babysitting.
    Nice post.

    The "Devil's Advocate" in me says that both Stevens and Donovan could never live up to what college fans expectations are of them anymore. Best they stay where they are wanted in the "here and now"...the NBA and allowed to disappoint.
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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    Fake news

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    Re: Hoosier Basketball: Archie’s Tiki Torch

    A dang fine read for a Hoosier fan or a basketball fan in general...

    https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/iu-b...d8MSSMOq8Ps4qI
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