Game of Thrones Season 8

[TheBigLebowski]

In the last decade, I've actually started to get used to shows ending well, or at least not embarrassingly.

Breaking Bad, Mad Men, The Sopranos, The Leftovers, The Wire, The Office, Six Feed Under, Friday Night Lights, Justified

Some of those were controversial, but all were interesting at worst, very good at best.

This was pretty bad. I'm trying to imagine how it would play when binging the show in the future, for newcomers. Maybe not so badly, but I think people watching it that way are going to feel the whiplash even worse of how quickly it was wrapped up and how poor the character development became.

Debating show endings is a fun enterprise if not a fool's errand. Other than some particularly egregious examples, it's a matter of preference. Some like complete and total closure to every aspect of the show. Some like vagaries. Others like an open-book ending that allows them to fill in the blanks with their own interpretations.

Normally, I'm one for closure. I don't want to have to use my own imagination as to how things end; I daydream when I want that sort of control. You started the story. Finish it.

GoT gave us as much closure as we could have reasonably expected, so I can't complain about that aspect.

However, regardless of what sort of ending one prefers, I believe it should go without saying that it should be well done and flow naturally, with solid provenience to the story. That's where GoT fell short for me.

[marcshoe]

My biggest surprise last night was that Moon Boy Robyn was still alive and part of the council. I would have thought that Littlefinger had long ago arranged for him to have an accident.

[Larry Schuler]

Re-echoing the Leftovers ending: the way they conclusively wrapped up the fantasy half of the show in the 2nd to last episode and then wrapped up the love story and heart of the show in the final episode was beautiful and very satisfying. I sort of hoped that GoT was following that model by wrapping up the Night King saga and then wrapping up the "heart" of the show with Cersai, Dany, and Jon's relationships but it ended up being mostly plot for both 'conclusions'. We didn't get the equivalent of that pensive, slow, beautiful Leftovers finale.

[marcshoe]

In defense of the finale

[NeilHamburger]

They're what's left of the ruling class of a feudal society. Who else did you expect to be choosing the king? Essentially, they're a Witan (what the Anglo-Saxons called their gathering of VIPs). A week to process killing Dany and then a full episode to get the kingdom sorted out would have been nice. Would have let them paint the picture of just how screwed Grey Worm is (no boats on a continent baying for his blood) and would have been cool to see Tyrion go from caged to unmuzzled.



Like when she didn't blink at watching her brother get killed in front of her? Or when she walked into a burning funeral pyre? Or all of seasons five and six?

I would argue everything she did in seasons 5/6 was justified in the Game of Thrones Universe. It may have been harsh, but that type of justice wasn't unusual for almost any character in the show. I just don't think they did a good job portraying her as some type of madman/madwoman until about 3 episodes ago, and then were like "oh, we need to make her crazy".

Her walking into the fire had more to do with the mystical elements of the show in the same way that Jon wasn't a madman for going to the wall and believing in White Walkers.

I could make a case for almost every character in the show, Jon, Arya, Sansa etc...to be a madman/mad woman by picking a few past actions. But, if any would massacre thousands of kids it wouldn't make sense within the overall arc of their character.

[NeilHamburger]

I'll give you an example of what I mean. Arya carried around a hit list of people she wanted to kill for years. She traveled around the world and murdered out of revenge. People could use that now as a sign she was mad, and try and justify her killing thousands of people. But, I would argue that wouldn't make sense within her overall character arc.

That is my same argument with Dany. Her actions the last few episodes don't match the tone of her overall character arc.

[Rojo Rijo]

The show had been on a steady decline for several seasons. I noticed it tapering off in season 6, and it really kicked into gear last season. The final six episodes proved to be just a sad culmination of an unfortunate trend. These writers had simply lost interest, became too rigid, or just weren't talented enough. Our characters suffered as a result.

This is where the books stopped so its not surprising.

[757690]

In defense of the finale

Counterpoint

[Tony Cloninger]

The show had been on a steady decline for several seasons. I noticed it tapering off in season 6, and it really kicked into gear last season. The final six episodes proved to be just a sad culmination of an unfortunate trend. These writers had simply lost interest, became too rigid, or just weren't talented enough. Our characters suffered as a result.

If they did not want to do this anymore. Give it tup someone else to finish it. They care more about SW than to finish this off better then why let them finish it.

[M2]

My biggest surprise last night was that Moon Boy Robyn was still alive and part of the council. I would have thought that Littlefinger had long ago arranged for him to have an accident.

There is only one true Moon-Boy.

[757690]

If they did not want to do this anymore. Give it tup someone else to finish it. They care more about SW than to finish this off better then why let them finish it.

I wonder if Disney is paying attention. They’ve has no problem firing directors so far.

[marcshoe]

There is only one true Moon-Boy.

[M2]

I would argue everything she did in seasons 5/6 was justified in the Game of Thrones Universe. It may have been harsh, but that type of justice wasn't unusual for almost any character in the show. I just don't think they did a good job portraying her as some type of madman/madwoman until about 3 episodes ago, and then were like "oh, we need to make her crazy".

Her walking into the fire had more to do with the mystical elements of the show in the same way that Jon wasn't a madman for going to the wall and believing in White Walkers.

I could make a case for almost every character in the show, Jon, Arya, Sansa etc...to be a madman/mad woman by picking a few past actions. But, if any would massacre thousands of kids it wouldn't make sense within the overall arc of their character.

She was a terrible ruler in season 5, an abject failure at it, constantly bristling at not being about to kill her way to a solution. Then she snapped and spent season 6 in the wasteland, eventually setting the Dothraki on fire and returning to Meereen to set more things on fire. Then she abandoned the places she "liberated" in order to conquer some other place where she'd never been. If she was going to be a good, wise ruler, she had a kingdom where she could do that. All along the way, and for years before that, she dropped lines about what she intended to do to those who opposed her.

And, I'm sorry, but in GOT "mystical elements" don't get a free pass. She walked into a roaring fire. Not for nothing, but quite recently in historical time the bulk of her relatives torched themselves in a similarly insane plan. Did it never occur to you that surviving, and in fact achieving power as the result of, a crazy plan might foreshadow more crazy in the future? That girl liked her some fire.

This was always coming. They didn't hide it. Dany didn't break character. She just reached the point where people had to recognize her will to conquer wasn't altruistic. They let us think it was because that's the standard story, but this was never the standard story.

And the difference between Arya and Dany comes down to upbringing. Arya had a core to which she could return when she almost went full darkside. People were wondering if Arya was going to kill Sansa last season. That was totally within her arc. Sansa was even on her list at one point. We got a storyline about how Arya's all kinds of dangerous, but how she didn't lose herself.

Dany didn't have that family core and good people of Winterfell acting like angels on her shoulder. She was raised by sycophants and graspers alongside her snotty brother (and likely first boyfriend, because Targaryen family values). She's been on the edge the whole story. It's what made her such a compelling character. I simply don't get how anyone could have watched the Dany on the boat scene at the end of season 6 and thought that was going to end well.

[M2]

If they did not want to do this anymore. Give it tup someone else to finish it. They care more about SW than to finish this off better then why let them finish it.

I think they did, but George not finishing the books put them in handcuffs. How much license should they have taken? Imagine if the Harry Potter movies had gotten out in front of J.K. Rowling. How would people have reacted to Dumbledore dying or Harry ending up with Ginny Weasley instead of Hermione? BTW, the movies did not portray GW as half the badass the books did. People still griped, but take it up with J.K. That's the story. GOT had to make choices about how much license they wanted to take with the story. I hope GRRM writes the books and fills in everything, but I'll be surprised if it happens. That's probably three or four more books.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I went back and watched a few scenes from season 2 that I was interested in after the finale. It is really interesting to watch them again knowing what Dany becomes and you aren’t rooting for her.