Think you'll be able to slot it in right beside Lost, which I do consider a tier A show and I enjoyed very much, but wasn't quite the quality people thought it was at the time. And Lost's ending was probably better than what GoT has done here.Originally Posted by M2
But two episodes left, who knows, maybe they'll stick the landing better than it seems they are doing right now.
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
But Dany's a tyrant in progress. What's her claim to the throne? That she's the surviving daughter of a deposed king? That she's got dragons, so she can mimic her ancestor? Dragons are pure tyranny. So are Dothraki hordes. Westeros doesn't need her to free the people. The North freed itself. Dorne's probably autonomous at this point. Cersei's beloved by no one, unable to go anywhere in her "kingdom" without an army to escort her. She's holding power thanks to a pack of sellswords with a history of wanting to usurp the throne on which she sits.
Dany did magnificent things on another continent, then left it for her perceived birthright. She perceived wrong, and where the story is leading (and I would argue it's always been leading here) is Dany venting her fury on a continent that does not properly accept her magnificence. Her father didn't start out the Mad King either. Sansa gets the core of Dany's problem - this isn't her kingdom. I wish they'd have done a scene where Sansa lays it out for Tyrion rather than cast withering looks.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
Yep. At this point in the story, Cirsei and Dany are simply two sides of the same coin. We got some foreshadowing regarding Dany's potential turn to the dark side. First, when her paranoia began at the Winterfell celebration, then when she told Jon how they could stay together as long as he kept his true identity a secret from her family. Finally, Missandei's final word, "Drakarys", was probably the piece that sent her over the edge. But really, we could see that coming.
Dany (like Cirsei) wants the throne, but we've already seen that she really doesn't want to rule (frankly, she's no good at it anyway). Jon can rule, but he doesn't want the throne. Gendry's just happy to be alive.
There is, however, one person still left who wants the throne and actually does know how to rule. Sansa Stark.
Now, this is all just my own fan theory, but maybe...just maybe...there's a reason we didn't get to see the entire conversation with the Stark family during the last episode. Is it possible that Sansa's conversation with Tyrion was a bit more involved than just "Hey, my brother is a Targaryan!"? When she said, "...someone else", why do we assume she was talking about Jon Snow? Why does Tyrion then subsequently spill those particular beans to Varys? Did Arya just sneak out of Winterfell under her Sansa's nose just because Cersei is on her "list", or is there more to it than that? Why did Jon really hang back when he had a perfectly good dragon to fly?
And I really hope we haven't seen the last of Yara Greyjoy. It would be poetic justice to see her return to demolish Euron's fleet.
Final thought on last night's episode...Apparently, no one in Westeros understands three dimensional space. I kept waiting for Dany to have Drogon climb to a point directly over Euron's ships and then dive-roast them into oblivion. There's no way they could turn their giant crossbow's straight up. Sigh...
"The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer
"The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
--Ted Williams
*BaseClogger* (05-07-2019),M2 (05-07-2019)
I mean I guess there is a conversation about ruling people and the rights of it and all that. That seems more like a real world conversation though. In the context of the show someone is going to be the king/queen right? And if the North or Dorne want to make an argument that they should be autonomous go for it, but the North didn't free itself. They were having a civil war between 2 Northern houses and the Vale (not a northern house) helped the Starks win it back. I don't know where you put the Battle of Winterfell on independence, but again, they didn't fight for themselves they had a lot of help.
Also is Dany venting her fury? I mean she's upset sure. But she hasn't made any crazy attacks, she has still listened to her advisers (often to her detriment strategically), and she's tried to build alliances which can be a slow process. I get the point your making, but again for me it isn't landing because for one I find Dany's actions reasonable thus far and also (and probably more importantly) I don't trust the way the writers push you on this show. I know what they are trying to set up, I just don't see it happening that way.
The North won its independence by killing off the Boltons (who were Cersei's wardens of the North). Cersei's made zero moves to bring them back into the Seven Kingdoms. Along those lines, I'm guessing the Vale probably has stopped paying its taxes to the crown too.
Dany's going to vent her fury. Hasn't happened yet. This past episode was all about watching it build. Again, if this upcoming episode isn't titled "Dracarys", I'll be mildly stunned. Dany came over with a sense of manifest destiny. She was always willing to unleash her dragons, and somewhat oblivious to the collateral damage that might cause. We've been getting regular teases that Dany could go darkside ever since her return to Meereen. She's a conqueror, which is great right up until the moment when the conquest becomes everything. This whole story has been about subverting the traditional narrative, recognizing that actions have consequences. Dany is the hero who is now poised to do something that makes her the villain.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
SteelSD (05-07-2019)
Does the Golden Company’s motivation/history exist on the show? Few things that we know from the books that aren’t explicitly stated do. All we know of the show GC is they’ve never broken a contract.
The problem with not having enough time to fill in the blanks that are in the books is that if you haven’t read the books you’re not going to get all the blanks filled in.
Good luck to Dany deploying her dragon, what with the Lannisters/Greyjoys having tens of scorpions - the most deadly weapon in the history of Westeros. Think about it, not only can a scorpion take down a dragon and destroy ships, virtually anyone can be deadly accurate with one.
But I guess this is my problem. Her using the dragons to smoke Cersei doesn’t make her a villain. I mean if she goes on a bender and just starts taking out Flea Bottom, but that would be super out of character. They’ve made Cersei the bad guy and they’ve made Dany the hero. A couple episodes of narrative about the things you’ve discussed doesn’t change that. It isn’t earned. It’s a face wrestler hitting another face with a chair to let us know they are the bad guy now.
I disagree. they've been laying crumbs for this for years. All last season she was wrestling with her worst instincts. This is fully earned.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
Kinsm (05-08-2019)
But her instincts and then not doing it is a big contrast to Cersei. Cersei deserves a horrible firey death.
If making Dany be on Cersei level is the way they want to go, they don’t have enough time to do it.
What an uneven season this has been. I mean, I eat up whatever the show throws at me to some extent now. But even devoted fans have to acknowledge the giddy narrative lunacy of Episodes 2-4.
Episode 2 = arguably one of the better scripted episodes in the past three seasons, each line of dialogue dripping with long-earned comeuppance and a genuinely gratifying payoff for several beloved characters (Jaime gets acknowledged for his reformed character; Brianne gets dubbed a knight).
Episode 3 = While not quite the slaughter fest we might have expected, this was absolutely epic, entirely unpredictable and visually enthralling (despite surprisingly murky cinematography that rendered the image track almost like avant-garde cinema).
Episode 4 = Well-directed visually, but this was a jumbled mess of a script. Felt like too many things happening at once with a scramble toward the finish. There were a couple of delightful moments ("I'm not a lady. I never have been.") but the hinge points felt forced at times (Sansa telling Tyrion about Jon's secret only one scene after he lets her know about it).
I remain enthralled by the show in general, but at this point I have to say its last great heights were probably Season 6. Seasons 7 and 8 just feel a notch below to me. That's okay -- this show off its game is still well worth the price of admission. Even The Wire had a bad final season and Six Feet Under lost its way in Season 4.
- - - Updated - - -
Last edited by RedEye; 05-07-2019 at 10:35 PM.
“Every level he goes to, he is going to compete. They will know who he is at every level he goes to.” -- ED on EDLC
*BaseClogger* (05-08-2019),Redsfaithful (05-08-2019),RedTeamGo! (05-07-2019),RiverRat13 (05-07-2019)
You had me at any Unforgiven quote.
What would you say.....ya do here?
BuckeyeRed27 (05-07-2019),RedEye (05-07-2019)
She's a younger version on the cusp of making her unforgivable mistake.
Again, this has been coming for years. I think the most glaring part of it has been the dragons. We've fallen for the trap of being enthralled by them, but back in Season 2 Tywin Lannister was holed up in Harrenhal, the castle once melted by a dragon. The Starks stopped being kings in the North because Aegon showed up with his dragons and threatened to incinerate everyone. We've cheered as dragons lit up slavers and wights, but what do dragons eat? Whatever they want. They've chowed down on the spare shepherd's boy. We've seen the Dragon Pit, where they had to sequester their dragons to prevent them from feasting on the good people of Westeros. Dragons are medieval nukes, a power too terrible to wield. And Dany comes from a line of inbred kings and queens with a penchant for madness.
We've been given all of this. She's a hero with the capacity for atrocity in her. It's not sudden. It's not out of character. Eight seasons they've been walking us toward this. It's been sub-surface, but it's always been there. Sooner or later, her impulse control will fail and her dragon will do what dragons do. At least, I think that's where we're headed. It's been a story about how the path to villainy can go through heroism.
Would it have been more satisfying to spend a season with her as the dragon queen? Probably, but a series that gave us Headless Ned and the Red Wedding was always going to end with a shock. BTW, I think we're going back to the 2nd scene of the show for the ending - the man who passes the sentences should swing the sword.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
I dunno. Daenerys has presided over more than a couple violent episodes while she remained a sympathetic character. First, she took over the Dothraki by murdering the Khals- driven by the unfulfilled promise of their aid in her quest to take back the Iron Throne. Then the sack and burning of Astapor, the bloody liberation of Yunkai, crucifying 160-odd slave masters in Mereen. If I remember correctly, didn't she feed on of the Mereen leaders to her dragons? Then there's the hasty execution of Dickon and Randyll Tarly...
Daenerys is a blunt instrument rather than a scalpel and has been for years. Oh yeah, there's some justification for the violence, but her first instinct has always been to go with the most extreme measure. Her character has walked an incredibly fine line between "liberator" and "conqueror" for much of the show, so I don't think a turn for the worst would be either surprising or unbelievable. It's been a constant narrative for many seasons.
In fact, I have a feeling that the "Drakarys" from Missandei is likely more a "Burn them all!" declaration than folks might suspect. Given Dany's slant and her current mindset, I don't see that it would be at all out of character for her to try to do just that; ignoring the lives of the innocent civilians inside the Red Keep grounds in the process.
"The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer
"The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
--Ted Williams
M2 (05-08-2019)
Posting Permissions
|
Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please. |
Reply With Quote