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Thread: Trade Deadline Fun Discussion

  1. #1
    Member Bigg Red Smokey's Avatar
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    Trade Deadline Fun Discussion

    Trade deadline is supposed to be fun and it happens to coincide with my birthday every year.

    I did all this so I can help paint a picture in my mind whatís most important.

    (1) Current players we probably keep...

    Utility - Josh Van Meter: He can hit his way into this team but I donít think his defense is ever going to be where it needs to be at 2B or OF to be a starter on a team that wants to contend for the World Seriesóunless he absolutely mashes. Heís a Keep for now as his return will be higher in 1-2 years if he can prove he can sustain hitting success at the MLB level.

    SP Luis Castillo: Top of the rotation arm. Canít see a deal where I would want to trade him until heís in his walk year.

    SP Sonny Gray: Whatís there been not to like about him? His off-speed pitches bring a different element to the rotation and he competes.

    SP-RP Tyler Mahle: I actually like his approach. I value him higher than Desclafini. Power type of arm with a bulldog mentality. Not 100% sure that he wouldnít be a very good bullpen arm. His results in innings 1-3 are pretty consistent and if he can continue to progress in the starting role, then I like him even better.

    2B-CF Nick Senzel: Move him to 2B if you can find a better CF who can possibly hit out of the one-hole. We donít need a CF or a 2B who canít hit. So Senzel answers the 2B problem. Defense there, at least for me is a question mark with Senzel. As is longevity. This guy is a banger on the field so heís gonna stay banged up.

    Utility Derek Dietrich: With Dietrich and/of Van Meter the LH off the bench is satisfied. This guy can play all over the field so heís a valuable bench commodity for a team that needs it. So he can be a keep for 2020 but see notes below on Winker.

    LH RP Amir Garrett: I donít see how we can move on from this guy. Our bullpen is not good and heís one of the best. Heís the centerpiece of the bullpen.

    RH Michael Lorenzen: See above. He and Garrett are the two pieces we keep. The rest needs to be re-built from the ground up.

    3B Eugenio Suarez: We know we have to keep him. India is too far away for 2020. If thereís a scenario where India is ready by 2021 we make tougher decisions based on what that future is at this time next year. (Suarez at 2B??).

    RHP Anthony Desclafini: Starter or pen. Iím indifferent either way. I donít think heís a liability as a starter and we have control. So heís back unless flipped. I actually think heís a better possible trade candidate versus Mahle.

    LF Jesse Winker: I like Winker. But I can live without him. I donít think with Iglesias and Votto as mainstays in the lineup that he can hit well enough to be the guy we need. We need more stick here. If heís a 4th OFer then we donít need Dietrich and Van Meter who are both more flexible then Winker. One of the three has to go?

    OF Phillip Ervin: Can he hit his way onto this team? I think we have a need for a guy like him. If he can be the CF until someone else is discovered then great. But Iím not ready to name him as the guy yet even though I love his game.

    SS Jose Peraza: For whatever reason this team is committed to making him the SS of the future. Iíd love to get away from him. But even more so Iíd like to be wrong about him and he is THAT guy. Heís still young is the argument but I think there are a lot of gaps in his swing. Hopefully, Iím the one who is wrong.

    Utility Kyler Farmer: I hope beyond hope he can be the catcher we need.

    (1) So that gives us penciled in components for 2020...

    (2) Needs to begin to address...

    Catcher: Anyone who can hit better than .250 and help keep teams from running all over us please.

    OF: We could make a move at any of these positions. All OFer are needed and most especially if a deal with Puig isnít in the plans. Heís the only definitive answer we have there now. A switch-hitter would lovely.

    LHP: We need a starter and a reliever. If Garrett is the closer of the future then we need an arm to replace him in the middle of the pen.

    RHP: Bullpen arms needed

    (3) MLB trade pieces

    Closer Raisel Iglesias: Move him at all costs. Itís an upgrade to dump him and get a set-up arm to replace him just by having Garrett be the closer. That gives us a better closer and a set-up man thatís worth more than the closer + set-up man you have now. Even if the return is lower than that heís not a guy that seems to want to be on the team and it shows. I think heíll pitch better at his new location and that in and of itself is sad.

    LHP Alex Wood: I guess we end up keeping him the rest of this year and based around those results maybe extending him a QO and heíd be an answer to a problem we have. We need a LHP in the rotation. But if you can address a certain problem by flipping him then he has to go.

    RHP Tanner Roark: Same as Wood. Flip him to help solve a 2020 problem.

    2B Scooter Gennett: Hasnít hit yet. Is there a GM out there who is a huge believer in him and also needs a 2B? I doubt it. Would Gennett re-sign at a discount ? Do we need him? Iíd say yes if we canít find a CF to relieve Senzel. A combo of Gennett + Van Meter/Dietrich isnít horrible except they are LHers and that doesnít compute for me. It limits the roster flexibility. So, I see him being gone in 2020. If a trade happens, then great.

    (4) Questions...

    Which minor league players are ready to contribute now and help the big team?

    I like some of the OFers but donít necessarily know if any are MLB ready.

    Lucas Sims could be a pen arm Iíd like to look at down the homestretch. Sal Romano as well. I donít see either being certain rotation guys and they are on the 40-man. So for me that means pen or trade pieces at the back-end of deals.

    (5) The 25-man best guesses for 2020 or guys we can lock up

    Starters
    1. Luis Castillo
    2. Sonny Gray
    3. Tyler Mahle
    4. Anthony Desclafini

    Bullpen:
    5. Amir Garrett
    6. Michael Lorenzen
    7. Wandy Peralta
    8. Sal Romano/Lucas Sims
    9. Cody Reed
    10. Robert Stephenson (Iíve placed him here but donít feel he is MLB caliber player at this point)

    Positional:
    12. Eugenio Suarez
    13. Joey Votto
    14. Nick Senzel
    15. Jose Peraza
    16. Jesse Winker
    17. Phillip Ervin
    18. Josh Van Meter
    19. Derek Dietrich
    20. Kyle Farmer
    21. Tucker Barnhart

    (6) Guys I hope we can re-sign and if the indications arenít there then flip em...

    SS Jose Iglesias: Love what he has brought to this team. He has some swagger, which we needed. He has the defensive ability to be a starter and he has hit well enough to deserve a spot on the roster. The Reds donít have an answer for this position long term, so he needs to be re-inked on a on or two-year deal. Now that we have a light hitting defensive wizard at SS we need to put bats around him. We have Votto set at 1B and he is also a light hitting infielder now who is reliable glove. All the other players on the field have to be able to hit if we want to contend in 20.

    RF Yasiel Puig: We have to find a way to get him signed ó and if not we need a RH power bat to replace him from a trade or the free agent market. So thatís a need going into 2020 that we can address now in the trade deadline or later via free agency. But the answer we need may be right here in front of us. Middle of the order RH bat with pop and a cannon arm. Plays hard. Iíll take it in a known commodity who seems happy to be in and play for Cincy.


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    Last edited by Bigg Red Smokey; 07-28-2019 at 12:27 PM.

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    REDREAD (07-29-2019)

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    Member HammerTime's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Deadline Fun Discussion

    If someone wanted to give anything of value for DD I’d ship him away. He does seem to be a great clubhouse guy, but on a team that’s not winning anyway I guess it doesn’t matter.

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    REDREAD (07-29-2019)

  6. #3
    Member Bigg Red Smokey's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Deadline Fun Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by HammerTime View Post
    If someone wanted to give anything of value for DD Iíd ship him away. He does seem to be a great clubhouse guy, but on a team thatís not winning anyway I guess it doesnít matter.
    Iíd ship him if it answers one of our needs and not ship him if Jose Peraza is the answer for not having him at 2B.

    The combo of Farmer + Peraza + DD/Van Meter + Senzel (CF) up the middle of the defense wonít win us a pennant for sure.

    But up the middle of Farmer + Iglesias + Senzel (2B) + Ervin or better is more defensively sound and may also hit more consistently.


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    Re: Trade Deadline Fun Discussion

    I think the Reds are going to try to add a controllable MLB player at the deadline this year. It'll be very interesting to see what the roster looks like after the deadline.

    Right now we have Castillo, Gray, Mahle, Garrett, Lorenzen, Suarez, and Senzel to build around. The fact that I only mentioned two everyday players means we need to upgrade at a few positions this off season if we want to compete with the big boys. I'd love to have Rendon and would pay up to get him, but that means that either him or Geno moves to 2B which could be problematic. I don't see Puig as a difference maker worth around 20 million per year(if that's what it takes). Rendon is the bat that is definitely worth that steep price.

  8. #5
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Deadline Fun Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigg Red Smokey View Post
    I’d ship him if it answers one of our needs and not ship him if Jose Peraza is the answer for not having him at 2B.

    The combo of Farmer + Peraza + DD/Van Meter + Senzel (CF) up the middle of the defense won’t win us a pennant for sure.

    But up the middle of Farmer + Iglesias + Senzel (2B) + Ervin or better is more defensively sound and may also hit more consistently.


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    Ervin is a defensive downgrade from Senzel in CF. I agree with keeping Iglesias and adding bats at the other spots. I think they are more likely to find a bat at 2B these days than in CF. Second base isn't the defensive position it used to be. It seems to be where teams stick bats that can't play defense when 1B is already occupied. Arm isn't important there and shifting has made range at second less important. I used to love watching Brandon Phillips and Pokey Reese amaze me with their defense at 2B, but right now, this team need a bat there.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

  9. #6
    Member Bigg Red Smokey's Avatar
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    Trade Deadline Fun Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Ervin is a defensive downgrade from Senzel in CF. I agree with keeping Iglesias and adding bats at the other spots. I think they are more likely to find a bat at 2B these days than in CF. Second base isn't the defensive position it used to be. It seems to be where teams stick bats that can't play defense when 1B is already occupied. Arm isn't important there and shifting has made range at second less important. I used to love watching Brandon Phillips and Pokey Reese amaze me with their defense at 2B, but right now, this team need a bat there.
    I agree with your points here. But I think we need a strong defensive SS if this is the case. I tend to agree that we need a big stick at 2B to pair with a light-hitting defensive wizard like Iglesias in Ď20.

    I also think we have those potential bats for that spot on roster IF we sign Iglesias.

    We know Peraza + Iglesias up the middle isnít enough pop.

    Will Iglesias/Peraza + Senzel/DD (or Van Meter) be enough. I think itís a better scenario. Senzel seems like a player who could benefit from days off because of his aggressive, banging style of play and a move to 2B allows this to pair him with a LH bench option.

    I donít think I mind Perazaís defense at SS. Heís pretty solid. Not a wizard but good.

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    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Deadline Fun Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigg Red Smokey View Post
    I agree with your points here. But I think we need a strong defensive SS if this is the case. I tend to agree that we need a big stick at 2B to pair with a light-hitting defensive wizard like Iglesias in ‘20.

    I also think we have those potential bats for that spot on roster IF we sign Iglesias.

    We know Peraza + Iglesias up the middle isn’t enough pop.

    Will Iglesias/Peraza + Senzel/DD (or Van Meter) be enough. I think it’s a better scenario. Senzel seems like a player who could benefit from days off because of his aggressive, banging style of play and a move to 2B allows this to pair him with a LH bench option.

    I don’t think I mind Peraza’s defense at SS. He’s pretty solid. Not a wizard but good.

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    I think Peraza at SS every day would be inadequate. Peraza is an above average defender at 2B and below average at best everywhere else. He might be able to be a decent OF with reps, but he's not looked very good out there when he's played out there. I prefer signing Iglesias to a reasonable deal, but I want them to keep looking for a better all around option for SS. I don't think Iglesias will command so much money that he couldn't be a bench player if the Reds could add somebody better.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Bigg Red Smokey (07-28-2019)

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    Member Bigg Red Smokey's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Deadline Fun Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I think Peraza at SS every day would be inadequate. Peraza is an above average defender at 2B and below average at best everywhere else. He might be able to be a decent OF with reps, but he's not looked very good out there when he's played out there. I prefer signing Iglesias to a reasonable deal, but I want them to keep looking for a better all around option for SS. I don't think Iglesias will command so much money that he couldn't be a bench player if the Reds could add somebody better.
    I agree that the best scenario is to sign Iglesias for Ď20.


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    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Deadline Fun Discussion

    They need a strong LH bat at 2B. Whether that's Scooter or VanMeter (with Dietrich as utility guy). Not some sub-0.700 OPS RHH like Peraza. I don't know why this is even debatable.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

  14. #10
    Member RedsFanInMS's Avatar
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    Re: Trade Deadline Fun Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by malcontent View Post
    They need a strong LH bat at 2B. Whether that's Scooter or VanMeter (with Dietrich as utility guy). Not some sub-0.700 OPS RHH like Peraza. I don't know why this is even debatable.
    Yeah, I don’t know how anyone can’t see that Peraza is just not going to be a productive everyday player. I say trade him but he won’t fetch much. Of course, he’d have to be included in a package of other players to gain anything.

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    Re: Trade Deadline Fun Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFanInMS View Post
    Yeah, I don’t know how anyone can’t see that Peraza is just not going to be a productive everyday player. I say trade him but he won’t fetch much. Of course, he’d have to be included in a package of other players to gain anything.
    Peraza has put up a more productive year at ss last year than any year Iglesias has done in his career.

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    Re: Trade Deadline Fun Discussion

    Everyone it seems seems to forget about Joel Kuhnel in Louisville with his power FB and other pitches. That means that Lornzen, Garrett and whoever aren't stranded on some desert island as the only castaways hoping some lonely ship comes by looking for company..


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