Rays to explore playing in Montreal part time

[Rojo Rijo]

IIRC, the insane lease was St. Pete's pound of flesh for being duped into building the stadium by Ueberroth. The entire expansion award for that team was done to avoid a lawsuit.

Yep, Naimoli sued after baseball squashed his purchase of the Giants even though baseball threatened that St. Pete would never see a team if a lawsuit was brought. The expansion Rays were there 2 years later with a 30 year lease, something Ueberroth had previously cautioned all teams against (signing leases for more than 20 years). It's too bad Frank Morsani didn't try and force baseballs hand like Naimoli. Baseball shot down his attempt to buy the Twins in '84 and the Rangers in '88, both times trying to move them to Tampa.

[adkindo]

Yeah, they love it so much there they want to play half their games in Montreal. If St. Pete would let them out of their lease, they'd hire Bob Irsay's overnight moving company.

Maybe you are aware of events that I am not, but they do not want to play half their games anywhere. That was a hail mary to put pressure on Tampa for a new stadium. If they tried the half and half thing, they know they would go from 14K average attendance to to 1,400 overnight in Tampa.

[M2]

Maybe you are aware of events that I am not, but they do not want to play half their games anywhere. That was a hail mary to put pressure on Tampa for a new stadium. If they tried the half and half thing, they know they would go from 14K average attendance to to 1,400 overnight in Tampa.

I doubt they care about what Tampa fans think. Aren't enough of them to support the team. They already tried the whole we-need-a-new-ballpark-to-stay ploy. They're onto the it's-not-us-it's-you phase.

[REDREAD]

Maybe you are aware of events that I am not, but they do not want to play half their games anywhere. That was a hail mary to put pressure on Tampa for a new stadium. If they tried the half and half thing, they know they would go from 14K average attendance to to 1,400 overnight in Tampa.

If this is true, this is evidence the city won't support the team and the team should move all its games elsewhere.

Rays had the second lowest attendence in the majors last year, (1.1 million) They were ahead of only the Marlins (800k) Marlins fans got screwed by new ownership, they have a reason not to show up.

Tampa has been a model small market franchise, yet they can not draw. The only reason I have heard is crappy stadium and too much traffic.. Not sure how this is going to be fixed without a new stadium, and if the taxpayers don't want to fund one, I don't blame them. But still.. what's the fix then? IMO, if the locals aren't willing to sit in traffic for an hour for a few times a year, they probably won't even support a new stadium and a 30 minute commute.

[Chip R]

If this is true, this is evidence the city won't support the team and the team should move all its games elsewhere.

Rays had the second lowest attendence in the majors last year, (1.1 million) They were ahead of only the Marlins (800k) Marlins fans got screwed by new ownership, they have a reason not to show up.

Tampa has been a model small market franchise, yet they can not draw. The only reason I have heard is crappy stadium and too much traffic.. Not sure how this is going to be fixed without a new stadium, and if the taxpayers don't want to fund one, I don't blame them. But still.. what's the fix then? IMO, if the locals aren't willing to sit in traffic for an hour for a few times a year, they probably won't even support a new stadium and a 30 minute commute.

Teams just can't move their games willy nilly. There's this thing called a lease which means you have to play your home games in that stadium. The Reds can't just say, "Well, we're going to play half our games in Nashville this season." The county would sue them so fast their heads would swim. Losing 10, 20, 30, 40 games a year means less people spending money at the stadium and all the venues around the stadium and downtown and Northern Kentucky. That also means less games to work for ushers, vendors, etc. It's going to put a dent in the local economy. It's also going to mean less tax revenue for the city/county/state which goes to whatever.

I don't know if having MLB in Florida was such a good idea. People seem to think that if Tampa got a stadium in a different area - an area that is easier to get to - the Rays would thrive. Plus the current stadium is a POS. With the recent success the Rays have had, do you really think they don't go to games because they have to sit in traffic for an hour?

[KronoRed]

Take half the games away and the die hards will all be gone and the casual fan won't really care because it won't be "our team".

The Titans tried to play in Memphis while their new stadium was built in Nashville, NOBODY showed up, the Kings tried the half/half thing with Kansas City and Omaha, they are now in Sacramento.

If a market can't support a team full time they won't support one half the time.

[JFLegal]

[wrong thread]

mods please delete

[M2]

If a market can't support a team full time they won't support one half the time.

Exactly, they're trying to get St. Pete to bite the bullet.

[InsaneinthBrame]

If this is true, this is evidence the city won't support the team and the team should move all its games elsewhere.

Rays had the second lowest attendence in the majors last year, (1.1 million) They were ahead of only the Marlins (800k) Marlins fans got screwed by new ownership, they have a reason not to show up.

Tampa has been a model small market franchise, yet they can not draw. The only reason I have heard is crappy stadium and too much traffic.. Not sure how this is going to be fixed without a new stadium, and if the taxpayers don't want to fund one, I don't blame them. But still.. what's the fix then? IMO, if the locals aren't willing to sit in traffic for an hour for a few times a year, they probably won't even support a new stadium and a 30 minute commute.

I live in Tampa and going to the trop is not a good experience. You get large attendance from making it good for the casual fan. The sports fan base is large here the Ray's actually have a lot of fans. Just look at the Lightning they have near record attendance for hockey in the same town. That us because of of the arena and location. It is much better area to give see a game and do other things. It is much better to get to.

Literally to go to a Ray's game in St Pete you have to go to an area with little else to do, the stadium is bad, access is bad with little or no public transportation. If you drive St Pete is in an area where you have only two bridges to cross the bay to get to from Tampa. And coming from the North the way I would have to go to get there the road I would have to take literally average a fatality a day. It is not just time going to the park.

Also the ratings for baseball is very good. Which shows people care in Tampa. Also if they move to Ybor which is on East side of Tampa it make a huge change in the population that could see a game. It would make Orlando in easy access less than an hour especially with those going to Disney. You could do a family vacation at Disney and easily catch a Ray's game now it is hard to do that.
As they say in business it is about location location and location. Tropicana field fails badly is this account.

[kaldaniels]

I've never been there but I just Google Mapped the Trop to get a sense of what it is like in person. Gross. It looks like an old civic center.

[REDREAD]

Teams just can't move their games willy nilly. ?

True, they would have to move in 2027 or whenever their lease up.
But they have proven they will not support a team, even when its winning. I doubt a new stadium in a better location in the Tampa area would really make a difference.

[Chip R]

True, they would have to move in 2017 or whenever their lease up.
But they have proven they will not support a team, even when its winning. I doubt a new stadium in a better location in the Tampa area would really make a difference.

You might want to read Insane's post.

[REDREAD]

I live in Tampa and going to the trop is not a good experience.
As they say in business it is about location location and location. Tropicana field fails badly is this account.

A new stadium is not going to solve the problems.
Look at the Reds as an example. They had a bad team, everyone said Riverfront sucked, no public transportation, no bars to visit after the game, etc, etc.
Reds drew about 1.8 million in 2001 and 2002 before the park was built.
They pretended to build a contending team for 2003. The park opened. They drew about 2.3 million in 2003 and 2004. Then from 2005 -2010 , they drew between 1.7 million and 2.0 million fans.
Not a whole lot of difference from the Riverfront days.

I know, Tampa is a different scenerio, but a fancy new park in a great location isn't going to be a cureall.
The Rays have a great team. They drew 1.8 million fans a year from 2008 -2010 while they were contending. From 2011-2013, they won 90-92 games a year, went to the playoffs twice and only drew 1.5 million.

They do not support the team. A new stadium might give them an attendance bump for 2-3 years. It would probably bring in more revenue per fan, which makes the owners happy but that doesn't change the fact that they do not support the team.. If they can only draw 1.5 million fans when they make the playoffs, sorry, they do not deserve a team.

They've had a team since 1998, went to the playoffs 5 times, and yet the only time they drew over 2 million was in their first season.. They've had their chance, when their lease is up, the team needs to be moved.

[InsaneinthBrame]

A new stadium is not going to solve the problems.
Look at the Reds as an example. They had a bad team, everyone said Riverfront sucked, no public transportation, no bars to visit after the game, etc, etc.
Reds drew about 1.8 million in 2001 and 2002 before the park was built.
They pretended to build a contending team for 2003. The park opened. They drew about 2.3 million in 2003 and 2004. Then from 2005 -2010 , they drew between 1.7 million and 2.0 million fans.
Not a whole lot of difference from the Riverfront days.

I know, Tampa is a different scenerio, but a fancy new park in a great location isn't going to be a cureall.
The Rays have a great team. They drew 1.8 million fans a year from 2008 -2010 while they were contending. From 2011-2013, they won 90-92 games a year, went to the playoffs twice and only drew 1.5 million.

They do not support the team. A new stadium might give them an attendance bump for 2-3 years. It would probably bring in more revenue per fan, which makes the owners happy but that doesn't change the fact that they do not support the team.. If they can only draw 1.5 million fans when they make the playoffs, sorry, they do not deserve a team.

They've had a team since 1998, went to the playoffs 5 times, and yet the only time they drew over 2 million was in their first season.. They've had their chance, when their lease is up, the team needs to be moved.

Do you think there is more Hockey fans in Tampa than baseball fans. The Tampa hockey team has an attendance of over 18000 a game and the tickets cost way more than going to a baseball game. But it a much better experience.

[REDREAD]

Do you think there is more Hockey fans in Tampa than baseball fans. The Tampa hockey team has an attendance of over 18000 a game and the tickets cost way more than going to a baseball game. But it a much better experience.

I am just saying, maybe it's not a baseball town?
This was touched on in a lot of other threads, baseball is just out of touch and has trouble getting new fans interested.
MLB as a while sold 1 million less tickets last year.
Honestly, if it were not for this "dysfunctional community" on redszone, I am not sure I would even follow the reds at all

Suppose you get someone who has never seen sports. You take them to a hockey game, then you take them to a baseball game. They are going to like Hockey more. The fan demographic for baseball is going to continue to age and shrink. I am not sure if it is fixable at this point. Tampa had no baseball tradition, they really never gained traction.. A new stadium is not going to suddenly double their attendance every year. Why spend a jillion dollars building a new park, which is likely to only bump attendance up for 2-3 years (As it did with the Reds)

Tampa has had a lot of great teams. They never got people to jump on the bandwagon. It just failed. The level of apathy is beyond what a new park will fix. Compare them to the Reds.. The Reds sucked in 2018, yet they still managed to draw 1.6 million when tanking.. Tampa wins 90 games in 2018 and then follows that up by winning 96 games in 2019 and people still don't come.. They can't even draw 1.3 million when they are clear contenders? Sorry, that's beyond what a new park can fix. That's apathy.. And traffic is just an excuse. If the Reds ever have a 96 win win season, I am going to be making a 2+ drive to see them pretty often. I am not going to buy tickets when they are tanking though.