Votto - HOF?

[RiverfrontRed]

I tried to find a thread where this was discussed as the main topic, but couldn’t find one. Votto and the Hall of Fame have always been a fascinating case study to me. How much more does he have to do to get in? And can he do it? For me, his most impressive stat is 6 times in the top 7 of MVP voting. But his overall numbers aren’t going to blow anyone away. What’s the magic number for hits to get him in, 2500?

Edit: And I should add his OPS is the other standout stat on his resume.

[Coopdaddy67]

He could retire today and I think he'd eventually get in the HOF comfortably. The move towards Sabermetrics isn't slowing down and that helps him more than anyone in baseball.

He may lose the career .300/.400/500 line though, which puts him in incredibly rare company. Career 152 OPS, which may fall over the years, but still put him among many current HOFers.

No doubt someone will be screaming "BUT WHAT ABOUT RBIs?!" at his induction ceremony though.

[Bob Sheed]

Reds Hall of Fame...

[scotly50]

Any statistic that values walks as much as hits will inflate Votto's personal stat line.

[foster15]

I tried to find a thread where this was discussed as the main topic, but couldn’t find one. Votto and the Hall of Fame have always been a fascinating case study to me. How much more does he have to do to get in? And can he do it? For me, his most impressive stat is 6 times in the top 7 of MVP voting. But his overall numbers aren’t going to blow anyone away. What’s the magic number for hits to get him in, 2500?

Edit: And I should add his OPS is the other standout stat on his resume.

I think your presentation of the MVP voting stats is the best predictor of an HOF member. Players that win MVPs and are at the top of the voting when they don't, get in period. Stats are overrated these days. Some argued with me that Adam Dunn would go if he hit 500 homers. I looked at his MVP voting history and that gave a definite no as to whether he had a chance.

[KronoRed]

Probably not, think he needs another MVP type year.

[Sea Ray]

I think your presentation of the MVP voting stats is the best predictor of an HOF member. Players that win MVPs and are at the top of the voting when they don't, get in period. Stats are overrated these days. Some argued with me that Adam Dunn would go if he hit 500 homers. I looked at his MVP voting history and that gave a definite no as to whether he had a chance.

The Adam Dunn discussions will forever be a stain on RZ. You are dead right with what you said above.

As for Votto, up until this yr I thought he'd get in comfortably. I didn't foresee his skills dropping off this abruptly. His story hasn't been written yet. Let's see how many more yrs he plays and what his numbers look like. As of today my best guess is he'll squeak in but it won't be easy.

[podgejeff_]

If this is the new baseline then I'd say Votto is joining Rolen in the Hall of Very Good.

[OhioRiverBarge]

Tony Perez: .279/.341/.463; OPS+: 122

Joey Votto: .308/.424/.523; OPS+: 152

Yes, Votto’s numbers will drop as he declines more, but I think it’s safe to say he’ll end up better than Perez in all those categories. If he doesn’t get in because he didn’t crack 375 HR or something team dependent like RBI, that’s just stupid.

If you think Perez is deserving, you should think Votto is deserving.

[757690]

Tony Perez: .279/.341/.463; OPS+: 122

Joey Votto: .308/.424/.523; OPS+: 152

Yes, Votto’s numbers will drop as he declines more, but I think it’s safe to say he’ll end up better than Perez in all those categories. If he doesn’t get in because he didn’t crack 375 HR or something team dependent like RBI, that’s just stupid.

If you think Perez is deserving, you should think Votto is deserving.

Good research. However, Tony didn’t get in based on his numbers alone. He got in for being part of the BRM.

[OhioRiverBarge]

Good research. However, Tony didn’t get in based on his numbers alone. He got in for being part of the BRM.

So you’re saying he wasn’t worthy of HOF?

[757690]

So you’re saying he wasn’t worthy of HOF?

I think he’s definitely worthy. There are many excellent reasons for a player to be in the HOF besides numbers. Being a major part of one the greatest teams in baseball history is one of them.

[OhioRiverBarge]

I think he’s definitely worthy. There are many excellent reasons for a player to be in the HOF besides numbers. Being a major part of one the greatest teams in baseball history is one of them.

So if Votto happened to be on the BRM, he’d be HOF worthy? And if Perez happened to play for the Indians or Cardinals those years instead, he wouldn’t be HOF worthy?

[757690]

So if Votto happened to be on the BRM, he’d be HOF worthy? And if Perez happened to play for the Indians or Cardinals those years instead, he wouldn’t be HOF worthy?

Probably. It’s not fair, but not much in life is fair.

[InsaneinthBrame]

It is the hall of fame not hall of best players. Playing on great teams and being in the playoffs means something. That is way life works. I also believe that because the reds have been so bad votto is not a household name and it is ashame