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Thread: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

  1. #1
    Moderator Kinsm's Avatar
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    State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    State of the Rebuild?

    May 14th, 2015: the Reds were 18-17, the last time they were above .500 in 2015 - finished last in their division (29th out of 30)
    April 20th, 2016: the Reds were 8-7, the last time they were above .500 in 2016 - finished last in their division (t27th out of 30)
    May 15th, 2017: the Reds were 19-18, the last time they were above .500 in 2017 - finished last in their division (26th out of 30)
    2018: 0-0, the Reds were never above .500 going wire to wire as losers - finished last in their division (t23rd out of 30)
    March 30th, 2019: the Reds were 1-0, the last time they were above .500 in 2019 (still some hope....right?) - currently last in their division (22nd out of 30)

    2020: the Reds are currently set to lose Roark, Wood, Puig, Scooter, Hernandez, Duke, J. Iglesias, possibly Hughes.

    2019 season is on pace to be the 17th losing season in 22 years since MLB expanded to 30 teams.

    Not good!


    This team might need a pep rally before their next game.

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  4. #2
    Moderator Kinsm's Avatar
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    August 31, 2014: Jon Broxton traded by the Cincinnati Reds to the Milwaukee Brewers for Kevin Shackelford and Barrett Astin.

    December 2, 2014: Chris Heisey traded by the Cincinnati Reds to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Matt Magill.

    December 11, 2014: Alfredo Simon traded by the Cincinnati Reds to the Detroit Tigers for Jonathon Crawford and Eugenio Suarez.

    December 11, 2014: Mat Latos traded by the Cincinnati Reds to the Miami Marlins for Anthony DeSclafani and Chad Wallach.

    December 31, 2014: Ben Lively traded by the Cincinnati Reds to the Philadelphia Phillies for Marlon Byrd and cash.

    July 26, 2015: Jonny Cueto traded by the Cincinnati Reds with cash to the Kansas City Royals for Brandon Finnegan, John Lamb and Cody Reed.

    July 30, 2015: Mike Leake traded by the Cincinnati Reds to the San Francisco Giants for Adam Duvall and Keury Mella.

    August 20, 2015: Marlon Byrd traded by the Cincinnati Reds with cash to the San Francisco Giants for Stephen Johnson.

    December 16, 2015: Todd Frazier traded as part of a 3-team trade by the Cincinnati Reds to the Chicago White Sox. The Los Angeles Dodgers sent Brandon Dixon, Jose Peraza and Scott Schebler to the Cincinnati Reds. The Chicago White Sox sent Micah Johnson, Frankie Montas and Trayce Thompson to the Los Angeles Dodgers.

    December 28, 2015: Aroldis Chapman traded by the Cincinnati Reds to the New York Yankees for Eric Jagielo, Caleb Cotham, Rookie Davis and Tony Renda.

    August 1, 2016: Jay Bruce traded by the Cincinnati Reds to the New York Mets for Max Wotell and Dilson Herrera.

    January 19, 2017: Dan Straily traded by the Cincinnati Reds to the Miami Marlins for Zeek White, Austin Brice and Luis Castillo.

    February 12, 2017: Brandon Phillips traded by the Cincinnati Reds with Kevin Franklin and cash to the Atlanta Braves for Carlos Portuondo and Andrew McKirahan.

    July 31, 2017: Tony Cingrani traded by the Cincinnati Reds to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Hendrik Clementina and Scott Van Slyke.

    November 2, 2017: Zack Cozart walks without being traded.

    April 17, 2018: Ariel Hernandez traded by the Cincinnati Reds to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Ibandel Isabel and Zach Neal.

    May 8, 2018: Devin Mesoraco traded by the Cincinnati Reds with cash to the New York Mets for Matt Harvey.

    July 4, 2018: Dylan Floro traded by the Cincinnati Reds with Zach Neal and international bonus slot money to the Los Angeles Dodgers for James Marinan and Aneurys Zabala.

    July 30, 2018: Adam Duvall traded by the Cincinnati Reds to the Atlanta Braves for Lucas Sims, Preston Tucker and Matt Wisler.

    October 29, 2018: Matt Harvey walks without being traded.

    November 30, 2018: Billy Hamilton walks without being traded.

    December 12, 2018: Tanner Rainey traded by the Cincinnati Reds to the Washington Nationals for Tanner Roark.

    December 21, 2018: Homer Bailey traded by the Cincinnati Reds with Jeter Downs and Josiah Gray to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Kyle Farmer, Matt Kemp, Yasiel Puig, Alex Wood and cash.

    January 21, 2019: Shedric Long traded by the Cincinnati Reds with a 2019 competitive balance round A pick to the New York Yankees for Reiver Sanmartin and Sonny Gray.


    ---Somewhat shocking that the Simon and Straily trades turned out the best.

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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    a team on a streak like this should have a stacked farm busting at the seams. This team does not and only has 3 difference makers at the big league level. And none of those 3 are in the top 10 at their position. The future outlook is just as bleak as it was when we started the “rebuild”

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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    We should have 3 or 4 big time contributors on the 25 man roster from those Cueto and Chapman trades right now. Whiffing on those was devastating to the rebuild. Roark, Puig, J.Iglesias, and Hernandez are looking like decent trade chips right now. We'll likely get nothing for Alex Wood the way things are looking.

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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    Is it just me or does it feel that Marlon Byrd is older than he actually is? It just feels like he was a 70's player instead of a turn of the century type..

  10. #6
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by JCM11 View Post
    We should have 3 or 4 big time contributors on the 25 man roster from those Cueto and Chapman trades right now. Whiffing on those was devastating to the rebuild. Roark, Puig, J.Iglesias, and Hernandez are looking like decent trade chips right now. We'll likely get nothing for Alex Wood the way things are looking.
    They should absolutely have SOMETHING of real value to show for those trades but “3-4 big time contributors” seems pretty unrealistic, they would have had to absolutely nailed it and gotten lucky to boot.
    I dont care, Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. Hes in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.

  11. #7
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsm View Post
    State of the Rebuild?

    May 14th, 2015: the Reds were 18-17, the last time they were above .500 in 2015 - finished last in their division (29th out of 30)
    April 20th, 2016: the Reds were 8-7, the last time they were above .500 in 2016 - finished last in their division (t27th out of 30)
    May 15th, 2017: the Reds were 19-18, the last time they were above .500 in 2017 - finished last in their division (26th out of 30)
    2018: 0-0, the Reds were never above .500 going wire to wire as losers - finished last in their division (t23rd out of 30)
    March 30th, 2019: the Reds were 1-0, the last time they were above .500 in 2019 (still some hope....right?) - currently last in their division (22nd out of 30)

    2020: the Reds are currently set to lose Roark, Wood, Puig, Scooter, Hernandez, Duke, J. Iglesias, possibly Hughes.

    2019 season is on pace to be the 17th losing season in 22 years since MLB expanded to 30 teams.

    Not good!


    This team might need a pep rally before their next game.
    And after all that losing the Reds hire a manager that has dubious managerial experience at best. Four losing seasons in the minors, the last of which was in 2012 where he managed Louisville to a franchise worst 51-93 record. I guess the Reds FO was overly concerned with making Buddy happy by building David up in the media so that it would look like a great hire. It wasn't. We could've had Rocco Baldelli (currently 52-27 with the Twins) but, the Reds FO just had to stay 'in house.' With these kind of decisions and the fact that we stand to lose several good players to FA the future looks to be bleak. But, as a lifelong Reds fan, I can only hope that someday soon they'll finally put the pieces together and ultimately prevail as they have before.

  12. #8
    Just a Fan RiverfrontRed's Avatar
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    #embarrassing

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    Member redsrule2500's Avatar
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    Wow, it's amazing how pathetic the Reds have been. 2012 seems recent....but it is not.
    redsrule2500
    Go Reds!
    Im a normal guy blessed with the ability to hit a baseball. - Sean Casey

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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    Is it really fair to compare David Bell taking over a team with 4 straight losing seasons and compare him to Rocco Baldelli, who took over a Twins team that had finished second in 2017? I took a look at what Baldelli inherited, and it seems that a number of his young players were guys who got drafted between 2009 and 2012 by the Twins. The Reds farm system managed to spit out Robert Stephenson, Jesse Winker, and Amir Garrett from those drafts. A platoon outfielder and two relievers. The Twins got an entire outfield (Rosario, Kepler, Buxton), a shortstop (Polanco), and a #1 starter (Berrios). Who was in charge when the Reds were drafting from 09 to 12? Walt Jocketty. The same Walt Jocketty who had fans and even ownership unhappy about the player development system when he was in charge of the Cardinals. Bill DeWitt ultimately hired Jeff Luhnow and got Jocketty out of running that side of the organization. I personally see Jocketty as the viillain behind the Reds current problems. Instead of focusing on Albert Puhols, he should have been worried about the free agent log jam that was coming in 2014. When he did decide to "retool," he made a mess of it.

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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    They should absolutely have SOMETHING of real value to show for those trades but “3-4 big time contributors” seems pretty unrealistic, they would have had to absolutely nailed it and gotten lucky to boot.
    Considering what the Yankees got for Chapman for less than half a season I don't see why the Reds couldn't have landed at least two studs for Aroldis if they had traded him when they should have which was the 2015 trade deadline. We should have gotten at least one major piece for Cueto who was a borderline top 5 SP in MLB at the time of the trade.

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  18. #12
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Deagle View Post
    Who was in charge when the Reds were drafting from 09 to 12? Walt Jocketty. The same Walt Jocketty who had fans and even ownership unhappy about the player development system when he was in charge of the Cardinals. Bill DeWitt ultimately hired Jeff Luhnow and got Jocketty out of running that side of the organization. I personally see Jocketty as the viillain behind the Reds current problems. Instead of focusing on Albert Puhols, he should have been worried about the free agent log jam that was coming in 2014. When he did decide to "retool," he made a mess of it.
    Pretty much. At the time I thought Jocketty deserved some slack given what he had accomplished between 2008 and 2013, and I do still give him credit for it, but it's become clear with the passage of time how ultimately unprepared he was for the immediate future. There was really no plan B once things started to go awry in 2014 with injuries and under performance, nobody was coming to save the day, and they proceeded to half-ass a rebuild and sold low on just about everybody when they did finally. Oh and they were starting it with a hand tied behind their back because as you noted Jocketty was not a believer in advanced player development infrastructure.

    This is more of a general complaint than a Jocketty one but I still can't believe they wasted four seasons and then part of a fifth on Bryan Price. It was clear after two seasons that he was never going to be the guy. They could have gotten someone else, literally anybody else, for 2016-2018 to see if they had some better methods and coaching staff hires like we have been seeing with the revamped pitching this year. To me that kind of summed up the Reds rebuild approach, which was to rest on their laurels when it was the time they should have been most hyperactive.
    I dont care, Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. Hes in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.

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  20. #13
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by JCM11 View Post
    Considering what the Yankees got for Chapman for less than half a season I don't see why the Reds couldn't have landed at least two studs for Aroldis if they had traded him when they should have which was the 2015 trade deadline. We should have gotten at least one major piece for Cueto who was a borderline top 5 SP in MLB at the time of the trade.
    Completely agreed on this. Same goes for Frazier, those to me represent the two single biggest missed opportunities of this decade. But I think the Reds did about as good as they could on the Cueto trade realistically. They got two highly touted prospects, they just crapped out. And the other guys moved during that deadline whose names we heard tossed around, Daniel Norris and Sean Manaea, are mediocre and a huge injured question mark, respectively. Granted that's better than the mysterious black hole that Brandon Finnegan currently resides in, but still neither would qualify as a major piece at this juncture. Pitchers are just such a crapshoot.
    I dont care, Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. Hes in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.

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  22. #14
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    Reading this made me more depressed about being a Reds fan than I normally am.
    I'm just going to go find a cash machine.

  23. #15
    Moderator Kinsm's Avatar
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by JCM11 View Post
    Roark, Puig, J.Iglesias, and Hernandez are looking like decent trade chips right now. We'll likely get nothing for Alex Wood the way things are looking.
    Who are you kidding, the Reds probably won't trade anyone.


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