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Thread: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

  1. #16
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    So to sum it up, the Reds have been over .500 ONCE since MAY 15TH 2017


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  3. #17
    Moderator Kinsm's Avatar
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    The Reds have basically spent about 30 of their last 800 games above .500.

    I'd do the math to check that (I know it's close), but I just don't care anymore.

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    topsyt (06-28-2019)

  5. #18
    We have a pool and a pond Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    See, when you telegraph to the world that you'll gladly accept handfulls of beans for your cash cows, those will be the only offers you'll receive.

    Those still clamoring to "take whatever we can get" should take note.
    He said he was curious about the crowd but didn’t want to stay and talk. “I’m heading out,” he said. “This is a super-spreader event.”

  6. #19
    Moderator Kinsm's Avatar
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    See, when you telegraph to the world that you'll gladly accept handfulls of beans for your cash cows, those will be the only offers you'll receive.

    Those still clamoring to "take whatever we can get" should take note.
    Negative. First of all the Reds have never done that (as they've held on to players till they walked), and secondly you have no idea if the offers the Reds accepted were the only offers they received.

    Perhaps, the Reds had multiple offers but chose those returns because their internal scouts said those players were eek....good.

  7. #20
    Member Tracy Jones's Avatar
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    If I were KC61’s attorney, I’d send a sternly worded letter to Mr. Kinsm threatening a lawsuit for gimmick infringement.

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    Kc61 (06-28-2019)

  9. #21
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    This is more of a general complaint than a Jocketty one but I still can't believe they wasted four seasons and then part of a fifth on Bryan Price. It was clear after two seasons that he was never going to be the guy.
    Such a massive, clear-cut failure that it really demands explanation. At least I don't remember one given.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

  10. #22
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    See, when you telegraph to the world that you'll gladly accept handfulls of beans for your cash cows, those will be the only offers you'll receive.

    Those still clamoring to "take whatever we can get" should take note.
    That has the ring of truth to it, but I'll still take a bag of circus peanuts for Iggy and his contract.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

  11. #23
    Goober GAC's Avatar
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    If our farm system is in such poor shape, pretty void of talent, as some claim... then do sources like these (and a few others I checked) not know what they are talking about, and got their heads up their collective butts? I'm not saying I'm in agreement with them; but only that I don't know. While I do follow our farm system (prospects) more then the average fan, I don't feel I'm qualified enough to make an accurate assessment either way.

    I know there are some on here, like doug, who have a passion for following farm systems. Would like to know what these individuals have to say, and what "criteria" is utilized to make these rankings?


    https://www.mlb.com/news/top-10-farm-systems-in-mlb

    9. Cincinnati Reds

    Reds' Top 30 Prospects | Breakdown

    Top 100: 4 – Nick Senzel, 3B/SS/OF (6); Taylor Trammell, OF (16); Hunter Greene, RHP (31); Jonathan India, 3B (53)

    Prospect Points (MLB Rank): 298 (6)

    It’s another preseason Top 10 Farm Systems list, and another with the Reds on it. This marks the third year in a row the Reds have appeared on this list thanks to their robust system. It starts with a very strong quartet at the top, with Nick Senzel, Taylor Trammell, Hunter Greene and Jonathan India all falling in the top 53 prospects in baseball. The organization made some moves to bolster the big league roster, but managed not to mess with that nucleus, partially thanks to the Marlins going with the Phillies' offer for J.T. Realmuto. Beyond the big top four, there’s some good depth in the system. The Reds are hoping to be more competitive in 2019, and plenty of help is on the way, as 17 of this year’s top 30 are projected to be ready to contribute in Cincinnati in the next two years.
    https://www.milb.com/milb/news/farm-...-1/c-304779462


    7. Cincinnati Reds
    Position players: 5th | Pitchers: 19th

    The Reds had the fifth overall pick last year, and they took Florida third baseman Jonathan India. He enters the year as MLB.com's No. 53 overall prospect -- about right for the talented infielder who's yet to show what he can do over a full season in the pros. But he's only the fourth-best prospect in the Cincinnati pipeline. Nick Senzel is the obvious gem, at No. 6 overall; his bat is so good that the Reds are trying him out at center field this spring to get it in the Major League lineup quickly (perhaps as soon as Opening Day). Taylor Trammell has the starter kit of a promising outfielder, showing a good hit tool to pair with potentially plus-plus speed and a good glove in center. After a right elbow issue ended Hunter Greene's first full season prematurely, he's the biggest question mark of the Reds' Top 100 contingent. But when he's at full strength, his fastball can hit the upper-90s and even touch triple-digits with relative ease. Tony Santillan, who sports a plus-plus fastball himself, doesn't make for a bad second-ranked pitching prospect in any system, even if the mound talent falls a bit from there. The Reds have shown a real willingness to chase a playoff spot with their active offseason, but if it doesn't work out in 2019, their fans can have some confidence in the future cornerstones closing in on Cincy.
    I've always held the position, when it came to the farm system and prospects, that success at that level is no guarantee at the next. That may be the highest level they'll ever attain. But one doesn't know till they are given that opportunity. Yeah, we can see they have the talent, natural ability, etc., and that's a good start. But IMO, all one can say about any prospect, even if they have excelled in the farms at various levels, is - impressive, has potential.

    I've seen many a ballplayers, with average numbers, nothing impressive, get promoted and have solid ML careers. Even HOF worthy. And I've seen those that tore up the minors, given the tag of "chosen one", and bust.

    So again - I don't know.
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

  12. #24
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    If our farm system is in such poor shape, pretty void of talent, as some claim... then do sources like these (and a few others I checked) not know what they are talking about, and got their heads up their collective butts? I'm not saying I'm in agreement with them; but only that I don't know. While I do follow our farm system (prospects) more then the average fan, I don't feel I'm qualified enough to make an accurate assessment either way.

    I know there are some on here, like doug, who have a passion for following farm systems. Would like to know what these individuals have to say, and what "criteria" is utilized to make these rankings?


    https://www.mlb.com/news/top-10-farm-systems-in-mlb



    https://www.milb.com/milb/news/farm-...-1/c-304779462




    I've always held the position, when it came to the farm system and prospects, that success at that level is no guarantee at the next. That may be the highest level they'll ever attain. But one doesn't know till they are given that opportunity. Yeah, we can see they have the talent, natural ability, etc., and that's a good start. But IMO, all one can say about any prospect, even if they have excelled in the farms at various levels, is - impressive, has potential.

    I've seen many a ballplayers, with average numbers, nothing impressive, get promoted and have solid ML careers. Even HOF worthy. And I've seen those that tore up the minors, given the tag of "chosen one", and bust.

    So again - I don't know.
    The Reds being ranked 7th or 9th really is poor considering they have had the worst combined record of any team over the last 4 years. The Reds needed a top 3 farm system considering the lack of talent in the majors for a chance to put a winning team on the field. The farm ranking should drop with the graduation of Senzel and injury to Greene. The pitching in the farm has been awful this year and Milb had the pitching ranked 19th. No pitchers have stepped up. Our top ranked pitchers Santillan (4.85 era) and Gutierrez (6.87 era) are getting lit up.

    Greene we may not see as a starter for 5 years as a legit MLB starter. Basically this year and next are shot; it will be like we just drafted him next year. It will take a few years to get his work load up to where he can handle being a full time MLB SP. It will be interesting to see how he is handled after his return from TJS

  13. #25
    Haunted by walks
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    The rebuild came and went, and didn’t work out, stricken by injuries among other things. The rebuild phase is over, and the front office agreed with us to do something more immediate. It was time to put a competitive major league team on the field, even if that meant short term approaches for the next couple of years, and drawing down the farm system slightly (Shed Long, etc.). The front office couldn’t have gotten away with, “The next rebuild starts now; see you again in four or five years.” So it was fun to read those offseason articles about how the Reds were being intriguing, savvy, innovating. I think that still holds, it’s just harder than it looks.

  14. #26
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    If our farm system is in such poor shape, pretty void of talent, as some claim... then do sources like these (and a few others I checked) not know what they are talking about, and got their heads up their collective butts? I'm not saying I'm in agreement with them; but only that I don't know. While I do follow our farm system (prospects) more then the average fan, I don't feel I'm qualified enough to make an accurate assessment either way.

    I know there are some on here, like doug, who have a passion for following farm systems. Would like to know what these individuals have to say, and what "criteria" is utilized to make these rankings?


    https://www.mlb.com/news/top-10-farm-systems-in-mlb



    https://www.milb.com/milb/news/farm-...-1/c-304779462




    I've always held the position, when it came to the farm system and prospects, that success at that level is no guarantee at the next. That may be the highest level they'll ever attain. But one doesn't know till they are given that opportunity. Yeah, we can see they have the talent, natural ability, etc., and that's a good start. But IMO, all one can say about any prospect, even if they have excelled in the farms at various levels, is - impressive, has potential.

    I've seen many a ballplayers, with average numbers, nothing impressive, get promoted and have solid ML careers. Even HOF worthy. And I've seen those that tore up the minors, given the tag of "chosen one", and bust.

    So again - I don't know.
    Senzel graduated. Downs, Gray, and Long traded. Everybody else has regressed or stagnated....with the exception of Alfredo Rodriguez who is hitting for more power than Trammel. Jose Garcia is plying ok and India is holding his on, going what seems 1-4 every game.
    There is no pitching in this system. At all. Outside of Lodolo

  15. #27
    Moderator Kinsm's Avatar
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    Farm system rankings typically weigh heavily on premium prospects, they don't really value farm depth. If you have 4 top 100 prospects you're going to be considered as having a great farm even if 5-30 look like sub replacement level players. Me personally, I'd rather have 15+ guys who look like major leaguers, though perhaps aren't top 100 prospects - the odds that more than 4 will work out is greater.

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    RED VAN HOT (06-29-2019)

  17. #28
    Member BernieCarbo's Avatar
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    I don’t know what the state of the rebuild is, but if this rebuild was a state, it would be Alabama.

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    Mitri (06-28-2019),texasdave (06-28-2019),TheBigLebowski (06-28-2019)

  19. #29
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    Most of the negativity towards the farm is due to Greene's injury and Trammell struggling in AA this year. I don't think it's all doom and gloom though. I really liked the draft we had this year, and I expect Lodolo to be a fast mover through the system.

  20. #30
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    Re: State of the Rebuild #1,762 (?)

    Boy if that doesn't scream this ownership needs to change I don't know what does.


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