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Thread: Farm Struggles

  1. #1
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    Farm Struggles

    It is interesting to look at the seven stateside farm clubs in the second half. Louisville does not play a split season but you can still divide their schedule in half. The best winning percentage of any of the affiliates is Chattanooga at .421. That would translate to a record of 68-94 over an MLB season. The struggles are at every level. There is just an enormous talent deficit. The problem seems to be growing worse by the week. I posted at the start of the Short Season club seasons that I really hoped to see improved records this year at Billings, Greeneville, and AZL, just to offer some hope that at the grass roots level, the Reds were figuring it out in terms of bringing in talented players. Those three teams all have similar records, combined for 23-38. That’s a .377 winning percentage, which would translate to 61-101. Gotta wonder what the problem is.

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    Member marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Farm Struggles

    Need to talk to Willie Nelson about organizing a benefit to fix the problem. Not sure what you'd call it.
    It is on the whole probable that we continually dream, but that consciousness makes such a noise that we do not hear it. Carl Jung.

  5. #3
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Farm Struggles

    The problem?

    In a name: Buckley
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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    Re: Farm Struggles

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    The problem?

    In a name: Buckley
    A few of his dud drafts are definitely a factor, but I think trying to pin it down to one thing isn't looking at the big picture. The coaching aspect and player development aspect (formerly under Jeff Graupe's charge) probably can't be overlooked.

    They made some personnel changes in the offseason, with new eyes overseeing the draft and international signings. Hopefully some revamping at the individual minor league organizational level is next.
    “I don’t care,” Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. “He’s in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.”

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    Re: Farm Struggles

    If there's a bright side--big if--it might be the way the DSL club is winning at a pace we haven't seen in quite a while, with several players contributing notably. Maybe that reflects a promising dedication to an area that had been conspicuously deficient.

    That said, it's certainly discouraging how infrequently Reds draft choices roll into the organization and perform. Especially this year, when the emphasis was on college players. Curiously, some of the most pleasant surprises have been the undrafted guys. Looking again for a bright side, I suppose we can hope that improvement has been made in development and the results will show up in good time.

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    Re: Farm Struggles

    It is hard to pin it down, other than just organizational fault. You could easily have a situation where you are winning at the low levels and not winning at AA/AAA and that might indicate one type of problem. You could be really bad at the low levels but strong in the high minors because you signed some great six year free agents or had emphasized signing projects who would take longer to develop. But when you are losing, a lot, all over, it seems like a deeper problem or multiple layers of problems (which would be a deeper problem).

    I am a big believer in the importance of winning in the minors, for many reasons. It demonstrates talent depth. It keeps the players energized, working, and moving toward the goal with high morale. But maybe most importantly, it creates a culture that continues to the big leagues of believing that you can and will win the close games, that you are not out of the game if you fall behind by a couple runs, that you SHOULD win. Baseball is a game of momentum, both within a game and within a season. Nothing is good about a farm system with teams playing under .400 baseball.

    You look at the results on the field this year in the majors and it gives an impression of closing the gap on the Cubs, Cards, Brewers. I hope that is the case. But is it? You traded prospects for a lot of one-year rentals. You should have made up some ground. Who knows? With all the changes in scouting and development, I would feel good if the Reds were showing throughout the minors that they are ahead of the competition, that they are not actually falling further and further behind the Cubs, Cards, Brewers. I don’t worry as much as others about the top five guys. Too many random things can happen there. I want to see signs that the whole way of doing things from top to bottom is sound. You just wonder what the problem is.

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    Re: Farm Struggles

    Just ran through the team stats for the Reds’ United States minor league teams. Why are they losing so much?

    Pitching.

    Offenses vary, on average not bad, I’d say mid-pack.

    But the pitching numbers overall and at most levels are weak.
    Last edited by Kc61; 07-10-2019 at 11:08 AM.

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    Re: Farm Struggles

    This is one reason why the Reds should go all out and re-stock the minors by trading away our veterans. We have a lot of guys who are FAs after this yr plus some like R Iglesias that might bring back minor league talent. If we don't, then we're likely looking at another long period of losing at the major league level

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    Re: Farm Struggles

    The Reds farm system has always been consistently weak. It all starts and stops with money. You get what you pay for in coaches, scouts and players. The Farm system should be loaded with talent with all the high draft picks over the last 5 years and its not.

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    Re: Farm Struggles

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    This is one reason why the Reds should go all out and re-stock the minors by trading away our veterans. We have a lot of guys who are FAs after this yr plus some like R Iglesias that might bring back minor league talent. If we don't, then we're likely looking at another long period of losing at the major league level
    Teams don't restock their minors via trade. You may get an eventual contributor or two this way, but the backbone of any organization is drafting and development.

    Tampa was always held up as the example of how to churn. But if you go back and look at those rosters, the vast majority of contributors were homegrown. Until the Reds get better in this area, they aren't going to do much as an organization.

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    Re: Farm Struggles

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    This is one reason why the Reds should go all out and re-stock the minors by trading away our veterans.
    The Reds should not go all out and re-stock the minors by trading away our veterans. They did that for the last four seasons. Don’t weaken the MLB team again, not now.

    The Reds won 67 games last season. This year, improved, try for at least 77. Next year, add more MLB talent, try for 87.

    The thread is very valid - build up the farm through the draft and Int’l signings. Get better development. But Reds can’t keep sacrificing the big club for the farm.
    Last edited by Kc61; 07-10-2019 at 01:01 PM.

  20. #12
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    Re: Farm Struggles

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat13 View Post
    Teams don't restock their minors via trade. You may get an eventual contributor or two this way, but the backbone of any organization is drafting and development.

    Tampa was always held up as the example of how to churn. But if you go back and look at those rosters, the vast majority of contributors were homegrown. Until the Reds get better in this area, they aren't going to do much as an organization.
    No question, this isn't the best way but it's all we got due to mistakes made in the past

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    The Reds should not go all out and re-stock the minors by trading away our veterans. They did that for the last four seasons. Don’t weaken the MLB team again, not now.

    The Reds won 67 games last season. This year, improved, try for at least 77. Next year, add more MLB talent, try for 87.

    The thread is very valid - build up the farm through the draft and Int’l signings. Get better development. But Reds can’t keep sacrificing the big club for the farm.
    A lot of the improvement from last yr is from one yr rentals. You can't just add to that.

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    Re: Farm Struggles

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post

    A lot of the improvement from last yr is from one yr rentals. You can't just add to that.
    The Reds are paying Kemp, Puig, Gennett, Wood, Roark, Hughes, Hernandez and other one-year players. All of that salary can be available to get new veterans next year. It’s a considerable amount.

    The Reds can also trade for veteran players. They traded for Sonny Gray, he’s made a difference.

    There was a time for a tear down/rebuild but they just can’t keep doing that over and over again. They should re-stock the farm system but primarily through drafting and Int’l signings.
    Last edited by Kc61; 07-10-2019 at 03:30 PM.


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