Time to blow it up!

[757690]

There is no template for a mid market team that works long term.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/

Check out the team payroll list. The top payroll teams are mostly the contending teams. A few teams below average in spending are contending, but they don’t contend every year, only when things go right.

You either have to spend like the big boys, or hope you have a decent stretch of a few years of winning. the Reds are trying something new, creative. Maybe it works. Maybe it doesn’t. But I like it better than just waiting around for a short run of winning every 15 years.

[Tracy Jones]

Not 100% the same, but in 2013 the Royals traded the #4 rated overall prospect (Wil Myers) and two other top 100 prospects (Jake Odorizzi and Mike Montgomery) for two years of James Shields (and Wade Davis, who would fail in the rotation in 2013, then succeed wildly in the bullpen afterward). The Baseball commentariat class had a collective freak out over the deal and demanded Dayton Moore be fired on the spot. The Royals improved from 72-90 to 86-76. The next season they went to the World Series. The season after that (when they churned Shields' salary slot and eventually traded more top prospects for short-term guys) they won the World Series.

Prediction: Reds win 2020 World Series. May 1st 2021 after 12-15 start, thread on Redszone posts titled, “Was winning 2020 World Series worth gutting the farm system?”

[Sea Ray]

Not 100% the same, but in 2013 the Royals traded the #4 rated overall prospect (Wil Myers) and two other top 100 prospects (Jake Odorizzi and Mike Montgomery) for two years of James Shields (and Wade Davis, who would fail in the rotation in 2013, then succeed wildly in the bullpen afterward). The Baseball commentariat class had a collective freak out over the deal and demanded Dayton Moore be fired on the spot. The Royals improved from 72-90 to 86-76. The next season they went to the World Series. The season after that (when they churned Shields' salary slot and eventually traded more top prospects for short-term guys) they won the World Series.

Not a bad example to bring up. It certainly worked out well for the Royals and it was risky...but it still wasn't really for rentals. They got 6 yrs of control out of the 2 main guys in that trade, Shields and Davis. That's much more than what we got in the Cleveland or LA deal. I don't want to diss Kyle Farmer here or anything 'cause I think he's a valuable utility guy but that's all he'll ever be

[Tracy Jones]

Do you think Travis Wood is a good comp? I do and if he's only that good, how often does a LH SP like that come up through the Reds system? Prior to Wood, maybe Tom Browning?

What LH SPs in our system rank higher? Lodolo. Anyone else?

Travis Wood was a career 93 ERA+ pitcher in just under 1000 innings. I’m not losing any sleep trading away the next Travis Wood.

[Sea Ray]

Prediction: Reds win 2020 World Series. May 1st 2021 after 12-15 start, thread on Redszone posts titled, “Was winning 2020 World Series worth gutting the farm system?”

I'd love to come on here after we hoist the trophy and say I WAS WRONG!...please make me do that

[Tracy Jones]

I'd love to come on here after we hoist the trophy and say I WAS WRONG!...please make me do that

Lol not in my power. I just think all this hand wringing over guys nobody gave 2 squirts about until the Reds traded them and haven’t sniffed the show yet is kinda silly.

[HokieRed]

Travis Wood was a career 93 ERA+ pitcher in just under 1000 innings. I’m not losing any sleep trading away the next Travis Wood.

Travis Wood's not, IMO, a very good comp for Moss. He was considerably better at AA at two years younger than Moss. Doesn't change my view that I think we may have given Moss away way too easily.

[MM83]

Not a bad example to bring up. It certainly worked out well for the Royals and it was risky...but it still wasn't really for rentals. They got 6 yrs of control out of the 2 main guys in that trade, Shields and Davis. That's much more than what we got in the Cleveland or LA deal. I don't want to diss Kyle Farmer here or anything 'cause I think he's a valuable utility guy but that's all he'll ever be

And they traded Grienke for a haul

Built the best farm in baseball

And had Escobar, Cain, Moustakas, Gordon, Hosmer, Perez all young, controlled and contributing

It isn’t even remotely the same

[Kc61]

Name a time where a small market, 90 loss team traded a decent portion of their top prospects for 1 year rentals and turned into a playoff contender.

In 2008 Reds lost 88 games. Last in NL Central.

Trade deadline 2009 they acquired Scott Rolen. Rolen was nearing the end of an LTC which was due to expire after 2010, just like Bauer's situation.

In the trade to Jays, Reds included Zach Stewart and Josh Roenicke. Stewart was Reds' best starting pitching prospect at the time. There was much dissent on RedsZone about including Stewart to Jays. Roenicke was a highly rated prospect too, a reliever.

The Reds won the NL Central the next season with Rolen.

The Reds and Rolen ultimately agreed to a restructured contract and he stayed with the Reds through their winning seasons.

[MM83]

In 2008 Reds lost 88 games. Last in NL Central.

Trade deadline 2009 they acquired Scott Rolen. Rolen was nearing the end of an LTC which was due to expire after 2010, just like Bauer's situation.

In the trade to Jays, Reds included Zach Stewart and Josh Roenicke. Stewart was their best starting pitching prospect at the time. There was much dissent on RedsZone about including Stewart to Jays. Roenicke was a highly rated prospect too, a reliever.

The Reds won the NL Central the next season with Rolen.

The Reds and Rolen ultimately agreed to a restructured contract and he stayed with the Reds through their winning seasons.

Lol. Scott Rolen brought the Reds 7 war in 4 years

They traded away 35 war in ee

[Kc61]

Lol. Scott Rolen brought the Reds 7 war in 4 years

They traded away 35 war in ee

LOL, here was your request:

"Name a time where a small market, 90 loss team traded a decent portion of their top prospects for 1 year rentals and turned into a playoff contender."

I just did for an 88 loss team.

Indeed you said it never happened in modern baseball.

It did.

LOL.

[Wonderful Monds]

And they traded Grienke for a haul

Built the best farm in baseball

And had Escobar, Cain, Moustakas, Gordon, Hosmer, Perez all young, controlled and contributing

It isn’t even remotely the same

Neat, we have Suarez, Castllo, Gray, Winker, and Senzel all young and under affordable control, and all of them are either major contributors or in Senzel’s case a good bet to contribute as of next season.

[Tracy Jones]

Travis Wood's not, IMO, a very good comp for Moss. He was considerably better at AA at two years younger than Moss. Doesn't change my view that I think we may have given Moss away way too easily.

Yeah maybe. Way too soon to tell either way, which is why fretting about it is useless.

[MM83]

LOL, here was your request:

"Name a time where a small market, 90 loss team traded a decent portion of their top prospects for 1 year rentals and turned into a playoff contender."

I just did for an 88 loss team.

Indeed you said it never happened in modern baseball.

It did.

LOL.

Scott rolen wasn’t the reason the 2010 reds were good

Homegrown, traded for and developed players were. Bruce, Phillips, votto, Cueto, homer, leake

[M2]

Lol. Scott Rolen brought the Reds 7 war in 4 years

They traded away 35 war in ee

Like every other team in MLB, they could have picked up EdE when Toronto released him after 2010. Yet the only position he could even sort of play was 1B and they had a 61 WAR guy there (and, at that time, the reigning NL MVP).