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Thread: Time to blow it up!

  1. #106
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Oh wow, so now the Reds suck for not drafting Kyle Lewis over Senzel. That’s a new one.
    Not exactly what I said.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi


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  3. #107
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsm View Post
    What's your definition of impact bat? Other than Suarez, Winker is likely the best bat in the lineup headed into 2020.

    Side Note: I'm not assuming Galvis returns, in fact if I were in charge I'd likely buyout his option.
    I expect changes in the offseason, but if Winker is our second best bat in 2020, we are headed for another losing season.
    Galvis, Votto, Aquino, Senzel are all potentially better next year.

    Note Winker's splits
    Home: 929 OPS
    Away: 722 OPS
    His power is a GAP mirage.

    His overall stats have benefited from being a platoon player this year.
    443 OPS vs left handed pitching this year.

    He's not an everyday player, so I really hope he's not our second best offensive player next year..

    Given his offensive splits (sucks against LH pitching and outside the GAB) and poor defensive skills, he's the most logical guy to trade. I would much rather bet on Aquino's and Senzel's upside. One of those 3 (Winker, Aquino, Senzel) has to go in order to make room for a better bat in the OF. That's the only realistic way to improve the offense, IMO.. Although I guess they could put Galvis at SS and get an offensive 2b.. But that's probably not enough to fix the offense.
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  4. #108
    Member Maldez's Avatar
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by bullseye View Post
    Things are bad, let's face it. Offensively, we rely on guys that can't crack the. 270 mark. Our future spends more time on the D. L (Winker, Senzel, Greene, etc) than on the field. Our rotation has 2 quality and consistant arms. No closer. No relief corps. Line up changes by the hour. No hope from a gutted farm system. Time to blow it up
    Oh, that's a laugh...this franchise has been in perpetual "blow-up" mode since 2015, and it's worked beautifully hasn't it? You trade away all your best players for young up-and-comers who will propel your team to greatness in a few years. The problem with that entire process is every player the Reds got for all their good players has been a complete dud. The only new player acquired via re-build trade who is worth a crap is Suarez, and his pickup was essentially a fluke, the return for one-year-wonder, Alfredo Simon.

    So yeah, let's trade away Aristides Aquino, Eugenio Suarez, and Luis Castillo and start the whole thing all over again...it's a proven winner.

  5. #109
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by malcontent View Post
    After watching Kyle Lewis destroy the Reds...when several of us here wanted him over Senzel...and seeing Jeter Downs, and then Taylor Trammell go off in the Eastern League playoffs...it all seems so hopeless.

    The only possible salvation is a managerial sacrifice, and Bell would have to suffice.
    Why the manager when what you describe doesn't involve Bell? I'm no fan of Bell but it's the front office that needs to be at the top of the list for firings

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    REDREAD (09-13-2019)

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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Why the manager when what you describe doesn't involve Bell? I'm no fan of Bell but it's the front office that needs to be at the top of the list for firings
    Exactly. I wonder what people are thinking we have to "blow up" in the first place. IMO there's no sign of a rebuild. We've got an aging first baseman with an albatross of a contract, no current clarity whatever in the middle infield, weak catching, and an unsettled outfield. We do have two good starters, possibly a third, and a decentish bullpen. But I see no evidence of rebuild, more like one reactive move after another.

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    REDREAD (09-13-2019)

  9. #111
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Why the manager when what you describe doesn't involve Bell? I'm no fan of Bell but it's the front office that needs to be at the top of the list for firings
    Legitimate question. First things first: Williams isn't going to be fired. I would be shocked if he was. The Reds made what seemed at the time to be a pretty good trade with the Dodgers. Now if I was a baseball scout, and had a better idea of the potential of Downs and Gray, I might have strongly felt otherwise. But as a Reds fan, it was hard to fault that move for respectability and a chance for the post-season. In retrospect, it now looks and feels like an unmitigated disaster. Add to that Bauer's struggles with the Reds, and the real possibility that Trammell and Moss become something, and we're talking horror movie material.

    Bell has to considered on his own merits, of course. He has shown nothing to make me think for a second that he deserves a second year. And I'm in the camp that believes a manager actually does make a difference. He reminds me of Price in important ways. I can see a future where he does just enough to not antagonize the owner and front office, and the Bell name carries him through his 3-year deal. Who knows, he might even get an extension.

    Remember, after Price, anything is possible.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

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    REDREAD (09-13-2019)

  11. #112
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    But I see no evidence of rebuild, more like one reactive move after another.
    I think the word "desperate" is a better description than reactive when describing these moves.

    I am still going to wait and see what the front office does this winter.. and when I say "front office", I am including ownership, Dick Williams, the GM and all the assistants.
    The Bauer trade is forcing them to go for it in 2020.. so no half-hearted measures this offseason.. Lots of moves need to be made, money needs to be spent or all these moves will be remembered like the Eric Milton winter.. Remember that? Carl Lindner got booed, felt bad and thought he could pick up a few free agents and suddenly the Reds would be better again? And it failed miserably. The Sony Gray trade was fantastic.. Everything else has backfired or just been mediocre.. Ok, so there's been some "waiver" pickups like Galvis and SS Iglesis that were good.. I was talking about trades.. I still have hope that Bauer will rest up over the winter and be effective again.. If so, I will put that in the good category. For now, it looks bad.
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    malcontent (09-13-2019)

  13. #113
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Reds averaged 95 losses for four seasons, were in a deep hole, are poised to improve by 8 games at the current pace. It’s a reasonable upswing and they’ll have more to spend next off-season. The worst starting staff in memory has been converted to one of the better staffs in the NL, covering a key element of any rebuild.

    They spent years avoiding any significant major league additions, but now have added players like Gray, Bauer, Puig for awhile, Roark for awhile, and will undoubtedly add more good players soon. They have some good young players, Senzel, Aquino, Castillo, to name a few. Suarez has emerged as a star.

    I just don’t see the tragedy here. The team is progressing.
    Last edited by Kc61; 09-13-2019 at 03:18 PM.

  14. #114
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Reds averaged 95 losses for four seasons, were in a deep hole, are poised to improve by 8 games at the current pace. It’s a reasonable upswing and they’ll have more to spend next off-season. The worst starting staff in memory has been converted to one of the better staffs in the NL, covering a key element of any rebuild.
    We’re way too deep in the life-cycle of this rebuild for me to be enthused by avoiding 95 losses. We’re running out of ammo and the team’s not even close to .500 yet.

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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Reds averaged 95 losses for four seasons, were in a deep hole, are poised to improve by 8 games at the current pace. It’s a reasonable upswing and they’ll have more to spend next off-season. The worst starting staff in memory has been converted to one of the better staffs in the NL, covering a key element of any rebuild.

    They spent years avoiding any significant major league additions, but now have added players like Gray, Bauer, Puig for awhile, Roark for awhile, and will undoubtedly add more good players soon. They have some good young players, Senzel, Aquino, Castillo, to name a few. Suarez has emerged as a star.

    I just don’t see the tragedy here. The team is progressing.
    15 games out in a weak division
    Depleted farm
    4th worst record In the NL

    5-8 win improvement? Who cares

  17. #116
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyJ View Post
    We’re way too deep in the life-cycle of this rebuild for me to be enthused by avoiding 95 losses. We’re running out of ammo and the team’s not even close to .500 yet.
    But the team lost 95 last year. That was the starting point for 2019.

    After that result, an 8 game gain is good progress. Anyone who thought they were going from 67 wins to 87 wins was being unrealistic. And Reds have come from -123 RS/RA to +8.

    As for ammo, money is ammo. The Reds should have over $30 million to spend (after Bauer) - plus additional from non-tenders and/or salary dumps - plus more if ownership opens the coffers a little more. They have plenty of room to operate.
    Last edited by Kc61; 09-13-2019 at 04:45 PM.

  18. #117
    Member redsfanmia's Avatar
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    But the team lost 95 last year. That was the starting point for 2019.

    After that result, an 8 game gain is good progress. Anyone who thought they were going from 67 wins to 87 wins was being unrealistic.

    As for ammo, money is ammo. The Reds should have over $30 million to spend (after Bauer) - plus additional from non-tenders and/or salary dumps - plus more if ownership opens the coffers a little more. They have plenty of room to operate.
    Do you really think the reds are going to be players in free agency? Best Hope is to take on a few guys teams want to dump, that didn’t work too well this season.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    But the team lost 95 last year. That was the starting point for 2019.

    After that result, an 8 game gain is good progress. Anyone who thought they were going from 67 wins to 87 wins was being unrealistic.

    As for ammo, money is ammo. The Reds should have over $30 million to spend (after Bauer) - plus additional from non-tenders and/or salary dumps - plus more if ownership opens the coffers a little more. They have plenty of room to operate.
    Do you really think the reds are going to be players in free agency? Best Hope is to take on a few guys teams want to dump, that didn’t work too well this season.
    When I see the 2016 Reds, I see a 100 loss team and no direction.

  19. #118
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    There are obviously hurdles, but overhauling an offense isn't as difficult of a challenge as overhauling pitching. And frankly I think the Reds deserve a little more credit for what they did in that regard, going from some of the worst pitching in baseball for four straight seasons to what is currently a top 10 staff in baseball by ERA. It is depressing that the offense proceeded to collapse just when they mostly figured the other side out, but if they show the same kind of initiative in that regard as they did with the pitching than they could have a solid club for next season.

    I'm not happy with this season, the drop off this last month (12-20 after scratching to 3 games under .500 on August 10, starting with the crushing loss to the Cubs via Bryant homering off Lorenzen) has been especially disappointing. But I'm not throwing in the towel or hitting the escape button at this point. Build a better team for 2020 and see what happens.
    “I don’t care,” Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. “He’s in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.”

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    M2 (09-13-2019),Revering4Blue (09-14-2019)

  21. #119
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfanmia View Post
    Do you really think the reds are going to be players in free agency? Best Hope is to take on a few guys teams want to dump, that didn’t work too well this season.

    - - - Updated - - -

    .
    Yes, they definitely are going to be players in FA. Last year they had the Bailey contract to deal with. That dictated the off-season. $28 million commitment to Homer, on top of Votto, etc. This year their main asset is money, they are going to be active.

    In terms of salary dumps, Sonny Gray worked out pretty well. Yasiel Puig worked out well after an initial slump. That’s a fertile area as well even if you don’t love the Dodger trade.

    And, as I added to a previous post - Reds have gone from -123 pythag last year to +8. There’s been clear improvement.
    Last edited by Kc61; 09-13-2019 at 05:00 PM.

  22. #120
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfanmia View Post
    Do you really think the reds are going to be players in free agency? Best Hope is to take on a few guys teams want to dump, that didn’t work too well this season.
    Gray, Roark and Puig all did well.

    They're not going to be major FA players, but being able to take on salary in a trade is an increasingly big chip when so many teams are tanking.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

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