Scott Moss

[Old school 1983]

I don't get the recent Moss hype train. And I liked him okay with the Reds, and had hopes he could be an effectively LH reliever or potential backend rotation guy. But are people really expecting him now to become some mid or top of the rotation arm? I just don't get what we're supposed to be deeply regretting at this point.

We are to deeply regret any move the Reds FO makes.

[Patrick Bateman]

Examining Bauer's track record up to the point of the trade, I don't buy that the Reds overpaid for him, nor that Scott Moss was an extraordinary piece to lose in the trade. The Indians did not have to move him when they did, and sometimes those sweeteners are the difference.

I'm comfortable with the value given up in the trade, and still find it likely the Reds end up with a comp pick when its all said and done... there are good reasons to think that Bauer can rehabilitate his value to be worth that contractual value for 1 year... guys like him are rarely available on the free agent market anymore.

With that said, Moss is certainly not nothing, and it feels unfair for people to both label the Indians as being "willing to the trade" without Moss, while also proclaiming that Moss was a valuable addition to the trade. Which one is it? He was either a deal breaker or he wasn't. You can't have it both ways.

[Kc61]

I don't think anybody is deeply regretting losing Moss. I think what posters are exercised about is that it looks as if the Reds threw Moss in without really needing to. That's pretty much conjecture and I don't want to buy into it, but it's not a completely wild conjecture. It's based on the assumption that the Indians were not going to let that whole deal be blocked over Scott Moss. And so if the Reds threw Moss in it looks like part of a pattern, to some folks, of undervaluing prospects: the prime cases being Gray and, at least for me, Downs. I liked the deal with the Dodgers, for a number of reasons, primarily to get beyond the Homer problem, but I'd much preferred it not to include Downs.

I seem to recall, forgive if I'm wrong, that Moss' name was not initially listed when the Bauer trade came to light.

Because it was discovered afterwards, people may have surmised he was a throw-in. But for all we know, he was on the table all along and Indians insisted on him.

Keep in mind, the Indians were looking for a package - they were not getting the major prospect Trammel, who was going to SD.

So all this "throw-in" stuff is just speculation, the deal was made, presumably the Reds just didn't give away prospects for sport.

[Edd Roush]

Examining Bauer's track record up to the point of the trade, I don't buy that the Reds overpaid for him, nor that Scott Moss was an extraordinary piece to lose in the trade. The Indians did not have to move him when they did, and sometimes those sweeteners are the difference.

I'm comfortable with the value given up in the trade, and still find it likely the Reds end up with a comp pick when its all said and done... there are good reasons to think that Bauer can rehabilitate his value to be worth that contractual value for 1 year... guys like him are rarely available on the free agent market anymore.

With that said, Moss is certainly not nothing, and it feels unfair for people to both label the Indians as being "willing to the trade" without Moss, while also proclaiming that Moss was a valuable addition to the trade. Which one is it? He was either a deal breaker or he wasn't. You can't have it both ways.

I also think that a guy like Bauer holds extra value to a franchise in that he does not want a long-term deal. This limits the Reds liability for a future Bailey-like contract and the worst the Reds would do is pay for only one year of an injury. I think we are going to see a much better Bauer next year and Reds' fans are going to want to see him around in 2021.

[HokieRed]

Agree. I like the idea Bauer is contracted for only one year. Gives us flexibility.

[kaldaniels]

I suspect most of us knew this but since there was some debate earlier...from a FG chat today which reminded me of the topic.

Of course scouting reports are not simply based on “in game” stuff/stats. There are other measurables that are used to project a player’s growth and what he will end up doing “in game.”

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/kiley-mc...-chat-9-18-19/

If a minor leaguer hits a bomb in Batting Practice 450 ft, does his Raw automatically go up? How many HRs at that distance would he need to hit before it goes up? Also, are there distances which correlate to the grades (e.g. 400 ft is 50, 425 ft is a 55), etc.
12:43
Kiley McDaniel: Once you do it once it’s possible, once you do it twice, it’s repeatable
12:44
Kiley McDaniel: 450 ft multiple times in one BP session, without a super juiced ball (Futures Game BP got one in 2018) or super strong winds blowing out would be 70 or 80 raw power

[tripleaaaron]

We should have walked away when the Indians asked for a guy we selected as our 17th best prospect prior to the season. How dare the Reds include that in a deal? We are clearly smarter then them now that the deal is done. We just didn’t want to rank him higher out of fear that another message board would recognize his talent. But the Indians outsmarted us. Damned.

[Rojo Rijo]

We should have walked away when the Indians asked for a guy we selected as our 17th best prospect prior to the season. How dare the Reds include that in a deal? We are clearly smarter then them now that the deal is done. We just didn’t want to rank him higher out of fear that another message board would recognize his talent. But the Indians outsmarted us. Damned.

You're trying way too hard pal

[paulrichjr]

We should have walked away when the Indians asked for a guy we selected as our 17th best prospect prior to the season. How dare the Reds include that in a deal? We are clearly smarter then them now that the deal is done. We just didn’t want to rank him higher out of fear that another message board would recognize his talent. But the Indians outsmarted us. Damned.

Who is this "we" that selected him as our 17th best prospect? What Redszone, reds.com, redsminorleagues.com or even baseballamerica rates someone literally means nothing. Teams and their scouts rate players far far differently than the "we" (whoever that is) you are talking about. That information is not shared with the public but the ratings are like night and day different. Literally the Indians and several other teams might have had Scott Moss as the Reds number 5 prospect. We don't know.

[Tom Servo]

n/m

[tripleaaaron]

Who is this "we" that selected him as our 17th best prospect? What Redszone, reds.com, redsminorleagues.com or even baseballamerica rates someone literally means nothing. Teams and their scouts rate players far far differently than the "we" (whoever that is) you are talking about. That information is not shared with the public but the ratings are like night and day different. Literally the Indians and several other teams might have had Scott Moss as the Reds number 5 prospect. We don't know.

I think the other message board part clearly gave away the fact that “we” means Redszone.

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You're trying way too hard pal

Nope. Just tired of the BS I can’t believe we sold the farm posts centered around players that weren’t thought of as anything more than an afterthought until said player was traded.

[Rojo Rijo]

I think the other message board part clearly gave away the fact that “we” means Redszone.

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Nope. Just tired of the BS I can’t believe we sold the farm posts centered around players that weren’t thought of as anything more than an afterthought until said player was traded.

Heavy overreaction. Nobody said anything about selling the farm and Scott Moss was never an after thought to the posters on RZ who actually paid attention to his development.

[HokieRed]

Heavy overreaction. Nobody said anything about selling the farm and Scott Moss was never an after thought to the posters on RZ who actually paid attention to his development.

Exactly. Moss made a tremendous step this year. The Indians were paying attention.

[tripleaaaron]

Heavy overreaction. Nobody said anything about selling the farm and Scott Moss was never an after thought to the posters on RZ who actually paid attention to his development.

Someone now has him ranked over Hunter Greene. That’s the overreaction.

[redsof72]

Right or wrong, the Reds did not feel that Moss was a prospect. They felt that Santillan, Hendrix, and Kuhnel on that opening day roster with Chattanooga were the pitching prospects on that team. Kuhnel had a great year, but unfortunately, the other two had injuries that wrecked their seasons. Time will tell if they missed the mark with Moss, but they did not see him as a guy who was going to be able to pitch in the big leagues with his stuff.