malcontent (09-17-2019),RedlegJake (09-18-2019)
Examining Bauer's track record up to the point of the trade, I don't buy that the Reds overpaid for him, nor that Scott Moss was an extraordinary piece to lose in the trade. The Indians did not have to move him when they did, and sometimes those sweeteners are the difference.
I'm comfortable with the value given up in the trade, and still find it likely the Reds end up with a comp pick when its all said and done... there are good reasons to think that Bauer can rehabilitate his value to be worth that contractual value for 1 year... guys like him are rarely available on the free agent market anymore.
With that said, Moss is certainly not nothing, and it feels unfair for people to both label the Indians as being "willing to the trade" without Moss, while also proclaiming that Moss was a valuable addition to the trade. Which one is it? He was either a deal breaker or he wasn't. You can't have it both ways.
Edd Roush (09-18-2019),OGB (09-24-2019),RedlegJake (09-20-2019),REDREAD (09-18-2019),RiverRat13 (09-19-2019),Tom Servo (09-19-2019)
I seem to recall, forgive if I'm wrong, that Moss' name was not initially listed when the Bauer trade came to light.
Because it was discovered afterwards, people may have surmised he was a throw-in. But for all we know, he was on the table all along and Indians insisted on him.
Keep in mind, the Indians were looking for a package - they were not getting the major prospect Trammel, who was going to SD.
So all this "throw-in" stuff is just speculation, the deal was made, presumably the Reds just didn't give away prospects for sport.
Last edited by Kc61; 09-18-2019 at 01:26 PM.
I also think that a guy like Bauer holds extra value to a franchise in that he does not want a long-term deal. This limits the Reds liability for a future Bailey-like contract and the worst the Reds would do is pay for only one year of an injury. I think we are going to see a much better Bauer next year and Reds' fans are going to want to see him around in 2021.
HokieRed (09-18-2019)
Agree. I like the idea Bauer is contracted for only one year. Gives us flexibility.
Edd Roush (09-19-2019)
I suspect most of us knew this but since there was some debate earlier...from a FG chat today which reminded me of the topic.
Of course scouting reports are not simply based on “in game” stuff/stats. There are other measurables that are used to project a player’s growth and what he will end up doing “in game.”
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/kiley-mc...-chat-9-18-19/
If a minor leaguer hits a bomb in Batting Practice 450 ft, does his Raw automatically go up? How many HRs at that distance would he need to hit before it goes up? Also, are there distances which correlate to the grades (e.g. 400 ft is 50, 425 ft is a 55), etc.
12:43
Kiley McDaniel: Once you do it once it’s possible, once you do it twice, it’s repeatable
12:44
Kiley McDaniel: 450 ft multiple times in one BP session, without a super juiced ball (Futures Game BP got one in 2018) or super strong winds blowing out would be 70 or 80 raw power
We should have walked away when the Indians asked for a guy we selected as our 17th best prospect prior to the season. How dare the Reds include that in a deal? We are clearly smarter then them now that the deal is done. We just didn’t want to rank him higher out of fear that another message board would recognize his talent. But the Indians outsmarted us. Damned.
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Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic. ~Bull Durham
Who is this "we" that selected him as our 17th best prospect? What Redszone, reds.com, redsminorleagues.com or even baseballamerica rates someone literally means nothing. Teams and their scouts rate players far far differently than the "we" (whoever that is) you are talking about. That information is not shared with the public but the ratings are like night and day different. Literally the Indians and several other teams might have had Scott Moss as the Reds number 5 prospect. We don't know.
Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.
n/m
“I don’t care,” Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. “He’s in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.”
Sea Ray (09-19-2019)
I think the other message board part clearly gave away the fact that “we” means Redszone.
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Nope. Just tired of the BS I can’t believe we sold the farm posts centered around players that weren’t thought of as anything more than an afterthought until said player was traded.
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Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic. ~Bull Durham
Right or wrong, the Reds did not feel that Moss was a prospect. They felt that Santillan, Hendrix, and Kuhnel on that opening day roster with Chattanooga were the pitching prospects on that team. Kuhnel had a great year, but unfortunately, the other two had injuries that wrecked their seasons. Time will tell if they missed the mark with Moss, but they did not see him as a guy who was going to be able to pitch in the big leagues with his stuff.
REDREAD (10-01-2019)
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