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Thread: NCAA Pay to Play: The Death of College Sports as we know it

  1. #16
    Member Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: NCAA Pay to Play: The Death of College Sports as we know it

    "Minor changes to the system make me angry so blow up the entire thing" is a very rational argument.
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    Re: NCAA Pay to Play: The Death of College Sports as we know it

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    Right, lots of colleges have spent hundreds of millions of dollars building out facilities all while paying the athletes who make it possible $0, correct.
    that take sells, but it is just false. Athletes are compensated with their lifestyle and abundant resources....hell, they even get $500-$1,000 a month in straight cash via cost of attendance stipends. Like I said...too many factors for someone without a budget in front of them to accurately guess...but I think it is safe to say all in a P5 scholarship football player "costs" the university north of $500K over 5 years using FMV's. That is not nothing to me. Finally, it is a 3 legged stool when we are giving credit for something being possible.....it takes the organization/university, the players/student athletes, and the fans/boosters. Without any one of them, and it crumbles to the ground.

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    Re: NCAA Pay to Play: The Death of College Sports as we know it

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    I say we just abolish college athletics altogether. I won't stand for the exploitation of these poor kids. They'd be much better off without NCAA athletics. Someone told me minor league baseball sells 41 million tickets per year. And people are always raving about how well those athletes are treated. Some poster (maybe dougdirt) practically commits his whole life commenting on how great minor league baseball players have it. If we abolish NCAA athletics and have similar minor league systems in all sports, athletes will be so much better off.
    and here comes #1 NFL prospect QB Trevor Lawrence pulling up in a yellow Blue Bird with his South Georgia Chippewa teammates to take on your Cape Canaveral Rockets. Hopefully the 5 hour bus ride down I95 with no AC will not have a negative impact on the Chippewa's today!

    Minor League Football is great...

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    Re: NCAA Pay to Play: The Death of College Sports as we know it

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    "Minor changes to the system make me angry so blow up the entire thing" is a very rational argument.
    Apparently you didn't read my first post in this thread. You, on the other hand, don't seem to even want to acknowledge that the system is already pretty good to the athletes. Doesn't mean it couldn't be better (as I noted in my first post).

  6. #20
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    Re: NCAA Pay to Play: The Death of College Sports as we know it

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    "Minor changes to the system make me angry so blow up the entire thing" is a very rational argument.
    It isn't going to be minor changes to the system -- it's going to be wholesale changes to how major college athletics work in the United States.

    The immediate outcome of this whole situation is going to be a proxy-market for athletic talent, funded and paid for by major donors and boosters of college athletic programs. You'll see arrangements made whereby whale-donors / boosters at major athletic programs are organized (either on their own or with unofficial assistance from athletic departments) to provide endorsement deals to players at their school of choice that function equivalent to a signing bonus & salary in exchange for playing football at the school. Structurally, the student athletes will still be scholarship players for (say) Alabama, but will receive negotiated financial compensation from Alabama Football Players LLC, funded entirely by their massive donor base. While this already goes on to a certain extent, it will now be unshackled and freed from the shadiness of the backroom -- allowing the full force of donor bases to brought to bear in recruitment.

    "Recruiting" for 3-star+ high school athletes will now consist of hiring an agent and shopping themselves around to each school's booster fund to determine where the best compensation package is going to be. This is going to be especially exacerbated in basketball, where you'll also see players shopped heavily and openly to the shoe and apparel companies -- which, freed from the backrooms, can now be open about directing kids where they want them to play based on visibility, branding arrangements, etc.

    Also, this entire process avoids Title IX implications, because all payments are coming from 3rd parties solely for the "Name / Image / Likeness" of players.

    It's entirely possible that things stay in this place and we hold at a detente -- whereby the players are happily making money from their outside deals and the universities continue making money from their massive media contracts (taking the hit on booster donations being re-routed to players instead of the schools themselves). But, inevitably, the next fight is going to the athletes getting a piece of the media rights deals. Here, the schools will fight to the death -- because the media rights deals are their meal tickets AND because we start to creep closer to a world where Title IX starts to be an issue. In this kind of fight, the most obvious solution for the players is unionization. Maryland is already putting a bill forward that would allow it, and the new reality we're creating would also create new factual circumstances that would undoubtedly lead to new court cases over the right of college athletes to unionize.

    So no, I don't see this as "minor changes" to the system.
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  7. #21
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    Re: NCAA Pay to Play: The Death of College Sports as we know it

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    "Recruiting" for 3-star+ high school athletes will now consist of hiring an agent and shopping themselves around to each school's booster fund to determine where the best compensation package is going to be. This is going to be especially exacerbated in basketball, where you'll also see players shopped heavily and openly to the shoe and apparel companies -- which, freed from the backrooms, can now be open about directing kids where they want them to play based on visibility, branding arrangements, etc.
    Hiring an agent would still be against NCAA rules, would it not?
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  8. #22
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: NCAA Pay to Play: The Death of College Sports as we know it

    Who from UC Athletics is marketable in this area? Across all sports, maybe Cumberland for basketball, although he may have a little more pull in his home town. How about Toledo? Or Kent? or Miami? Maybe a local car dealer wants to have the starting QB or RB as their spokesman, but when you can dip into the professional pool, why roll the dice with a minimally known student athlete?

    Making money off your own likeness would help the top 1% of athletes, other than that, there will be minimal impact, if that. Across the state of California, how many athletes will benefit from this?

    How many OSU fans would buy a Thayer Munford jersey? How about Wyatt Davis, Jonathan Cooper, BB Landers, etc? There is this idea that players are getting screwed by playing college football, but for the vast majority of football players, maybe 85-90%, what they get out of major college football is far more than a pittance they would receive from their own likeness.

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    Re: NCAA Pay to Play: The Death of College Sports as we know it

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Making money off your own likeness would help the top 1% of athletes, other than that, there will be minimal impact, if that. Across the state of California, how many athletes will benefit from this?
    In theory. In reality, I think it will be a bidding war of boosters looking to help their team recruit. Ohio State fans might not care about an individual player's jersey, but they certainly might be interested in contributing financially to allow Ohio State to pull in a recruiting class better than Alabama's or Clemson's. Let the coaches pick the 25 best recruits, and whoever they are they'll know there is a pot of money waiting for them from boosters.

  10. #24
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    Re: NCAA Pay to Play: The Death of College Sports as we know it

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Who from UC Athletics is marketable in this area? Across all sports, maybe Cumberland for basketball, although he may have a little more pull in his home town. How about Toledo? Or Kent? or Miami? Maybe a local car dealer wants to have the starting QB or RB as their spokesman, but when you can dip into the professional pool, why roll the dice with a minimally known student athlete?

    Making money off your own likeness would help the top 1% of athletes, other than that, there will be minimal impact, if that. Across the state of California, how many athletes will benefit from this?

    How many OSU fans would buy a Thayer Munford jersey? How about Wyatt Davis, Jonathan Cooper, BB Landers, etc? There is this idea that players are getting screwed by playing college football, but for the vast majority of football players, maybe 85-90%, what they get out of major college football is far more than a pittance they would receive from their own likeness.
    How many OSU fans would by a Thayer Munford jersey? Probably very few.

    How many boosters / whale donors care about getting recruits like Tayer Munford through the door so that the program can keep up it's dominance? Quite a few, I'd imagine.

    This is all about creating a legalized means for players to be paid money by 3rd parties. As soon as that is a reality, you'll start to see *everyone* getting paid at the top universities just to maintain the dominance. Once that happens, it becomes a game of "keep up with the Jonses" or get left behind.
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  11. #25
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: NCAA Pay to Play: The Death of College Sports as we know it

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    In theory. In reality, I think it will be a bidding war of boosters looking to help their team recruit. Ohio State fans might not care about an individual player's jersey, but they certainly might be interested in contributing financially to allow Ohio State to pull in a recruiting class better than Alabama's or Clemson's. Let the coaches pick the 25 best recruits, and whoever they are they'll know there is a pot of money waiting for them from boosters.
    You mean like a minor league signing bonus? As mentioned above, how well are minor league players compensated? Yea, I see this like the seedy underbelly of college athletes coming into the open, I don't think it will matter all that much. I just don't know how they would go about paying a player to commit if they are able to make money off their own likeness. I guess you could buy 1000 jerseys of said player, but then what percentage of that would a player get?

    But this brings me to a large point, isn't the NCAA the governing body? Couldn't the NCAA hold its line, saying that you can accept money, but you are unable to participate in NCAA sanctioned events?

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  13. #26
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    Re: NCAA Pay to Play: The Death of College Sports as we know it

    They don't have to sell jerseys. A local car dealership could have a commercial that includes the entire football recruiting class every year. All the booster donations are sent to that car dealer. Car dealer pays all the players to participate in the ad. The coaches don't have to promise anything or be involved. The players would obviously become aware of the fact that every year there's a commercial that all the football recruits get paid to be a part of.

    And I'm sure the NCAA will fight this tooth and nail.

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    REDREAD (10-03-2019)

  15. #27
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    Re: NCAA Pay to Play: The Death of College Sports as we know it

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    They don't have to sell jerseys. A local car dealership could have a commercial that includes the entire football recruiting class every year. All the booster donations are sent to that car dealer. Car dealer pays all the players to participate in the ad. The coaches don't have to promise anything or be involved. The players would obviously become aware of the fact that every year there's a commercial that all the football recruits get paid to be a part of.

    And I'm sure the NCAA will fight this tooth and nail.
    They don't even need to have a commercial. The booster that owns the car dealership, the booster that owns the law firm, and the booster that owns the business-to-business sales operation (which doesn't even advertise) can all form an LLC for the specific purpose of licensing the N/I/L of the entire recruiting class every season and then negotiate a deal with each player as they sign their letter of intent.
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  16. #28
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    Re: NCAA Pay to Play: The Death of College Sports as we know it

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    They don't even need to have a commercial. The booster that owns the car dealership, the booster that owns the law firm, and the booster that owns the business-to-business sales operation (which doesn't even advertise) can all form an LLC for the specific purpose of licensing the N/I/L of the entire recruiting class every season and then negotiate a deal with each player as they sign their letter of intent.
    It's a mess and the NCAA has to keep it from getting to that point

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  18. #29
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    Re: NCAA Pay to Play: The Death of College Sports as we know it

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    They don't even need to have a commercial. The booster that owns the car dealership, the booster that owns the law firm, and the booster that owns the business-to-business sales operation (which doesn't even advertise) can all form an LLC for the specific purpose of licensing the N/I/L of the entire recruiting class every season and then negotiate a deal with each player as they sign their letter of intent.
    Yes, this is what will happen, and it's great. The people against this are underestimating how much this already happens to a ridiculous degree. That three star recruit you were talking about earlier is already getting paid. Does it feel better since you don't have to look at it?
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    Re: NCAA Pay to Play: The Death of College Sports as we know it

    I don't mind that college players can make money from their name, image, likeness. However, California can't do one thing and the rest of the country do another thing. That you simply can't have.

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