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Thread: Random off-season topic: Pete's best position?

  1. #1
    Member reds77's Avatar
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    Random off-season topic: Pete's best position?

    My random thoughts about the Reds, all-time Reds greats, and baseball in general resulted in me wondering what was Pete Roses's best defensive position in the field?

    We know he played many positions:

    1B, 2B, 3B, LF, CF, & RF, but which position was his best defensively. I'm perceiving the word best as supported by statistics and the eye test of those who watched him play.

    I wasn't alive for the prime of Pete's career or the Big Red Machine World Series victories of 1975 and 1976. I only saw Pete play live when I was too young to know what I was watching.

    He won a Gold Glove in 1969 (56 games in CF and 101 games in RF) and in 1970 (1 game in LF, 5 games in CF, and 155 games in RF). For the back-to-back World Series wins, he primarily played 3B. His games played by position is interesting when considering the totals:

    1B- 939
    LF- 673
    3B- 634
    2B- 628
    RF- 590
    CF- 73

    He also pinch-hit 97 times and pinch-ran 3 times.

    I've looked at his fielding stats and I'm left wondering, what was Pete's best defensive position? What do the stats reveal and what do those who watched him play think?

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...ndard_fielding

    Any RedsZoner's with an opinion? My apology if creating a topic like this is unwarranted (this is a tough board for starting topics, I'm not trying to upset the moderators with my topic creation).

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    Member Crosley68's Avatar
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    Re: Random off-season topic: Pete's best position?

    I felt he was solid at 3B, Very Good in RF, and gold glove caliber in LF.
    Let's play two!!!

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  6. #3
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Random off-season topic: Pete's best position?

    His best position was LF. It's not really close.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Member reds77's Avatar
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    Re: Random off-season topic: Pete's best position?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    His best position was LF. It's not really close.
    What are you basing this on? I'm not asking because I feel you need to defend your opinion, but I'm rather because I am genuinely interested.

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    Re: Random off-season topic: Pete's best position?

    The only position that Rose was above average at was OF.

    He was moved off of 2B because Helms was so much better. Of course, helms was better than most. By the time Rose was playing 3b, his defense had declined.

    I am basing this on the eye test and his fielding numbers given to him in the Strat-o-Matic baseball game.

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    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Random off-season topic: Pete's best position?

    According to this study it was LF. But in general Pete was not a good fielder.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/basebal...e-metrics/amp/
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Random off-season topic: Pete's best position?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds77 View Post
    What are you basing this on? I'm not asking because I feel you need to defend your opinion, but I'm rather because I am genuinely interested.
    I watched him a lot from the mid-60s on. He was a pretty good fielder of the ball. Got in good position and charged the ball to make the throws from the OF. His arm was horrible and he was much better shagging flies than fielding grounders. He couldn't turn the DP very well at 2B and at 3B he was more of a knock it down with his body and hope he gets it to 1B without throwing it in the dirt kind of guy. In RF, guys took third on him all the time, but he did throw guys out because he charged the ball and everybody ran on him so he had lots of chances. The short throw to 3B from LF suited him more, hid his biggest weakness while still taking advantage of what he did well.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Re: Random off-season topic: Pete's best position?

    Near the bar at Turfway

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    Re: Random off-season topic: Pete's best position?

    If he was in the Crosley outfield it was as an OF

    If he was on Astroturf it was First base

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    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Random off-season topic: Pete's best position?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    If he was in the Crosley outfield it was as an OF

    If he was on Astroturf it was First base
    Yeah, he was pretty good at 1B, but I didn't really consider it. He wasn't a prototypical 1B type.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Re: Random off-season topic: Pete's best position?

    There's a play in the 1980 world series where Bob Boone drops a foul ball and Rose catches the ball out of Boone's mit.
    That was Pete Rose. Little bits of nonsense like that where you thought "anybody could do that." and then realized that Pete did those kind of things often.

    He was not a good second baseman or right fielder or centerfielder or thirdbaseman.....Nobody in their right mind would bench Tony Perez or Adam Dunn in order to play Pete Rose at first or in left, but Pete was OK everyplace that he played. If I were picking an all-time reds team and had to choose where Pete would belong I think I would put him at third without apology.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

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  22. #12
    Member reds77's Avatar
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    Re: Random off-season topic: Pete's best position?

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    There's a play in the 1980 world series where Bob Boone drops a foul ball and Rose catches the ball out of Boone's mit.
    That was Pete Rose. Little bits of nonsense like that where you thought "anybody could do that." and then realized that Pete did those kind of things often.

    He was not a good second baseman or right fielder or centerfielder or thirdbaseman.....Nobody in their right mind would bench Tony Perez or Adam Dunn in order to play Pete Rose at first or in left, but Pete was OK everyplace that he played. If I were picking an all-time reds team and had to choose where Pete would belong I think I would put him at third without apology.
    Now that Votto's had 10+ years as a Red, I think he's possibly eclipsed Tony Perez at 1B on an all-time Reds team. Perez could possibly slide over to 3B, but Suarez is also beginning to garner heavy consideration at 3B on an all-time squad. Pete is absolutely in my starting lineup, so I think I'm putting him in LF. I like your reply, Pete just make it work wherever he played.

  23. #13
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Random off-season topic: Pete's best position?

    Remember when he used to catch the last out at first, slam the ball to the ground, and run off the field? He should have done that as an outfielder
    Alice Sweet's Tomato Plant

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  25. #14
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Random off-season topic: Pete's best position?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds77 View Post
    Now that Votto's had 10+ years as a Red, I think he's possibly eclipsed Tony Perez at 1B on an all-time Reds team. Perez could possibly slide over to 3B, but Suarez is also beginning to garner heavy consideration at 3B on an all-time squad. Pete is absolutely in my starting lineup, so I think I'm putting him in LF. I like your reply, Pete just make it work wherever he played.
    Votto in a landslide. Perez plays 3B IMO. Rose in LF. The rest of the team, Morgan, Larkin, Bench, Roush, Robinson. The bench would be Lombardi, Concepcion, Foster, Davis, Pinson, Suarez. Depends on how you pick positions, but somebody among Davis, Pinson, Foster and Suarez probably gets bumped. It will be controversial, but Adam Dunn has a case to be included, but I don't see room over the others.

    Pitching staff is tough. I'll start with Bucky Walters, Eppa Rixey, Jim Maloney, Paul Derringer. The rest is tougher. A lot of guys with only a few years. Johnny Cueto probably makes it.
    Last edited by mth123; 12-15-2019 at 09:07 AM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

  26. #15
    Member reds77's Avatar
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    Re: Random off-season topic: Pete's best position?

    I think you're spot on with a Reds all-time team. I'd perhaps give consideration to Griffey Jr. over Foster.


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