Offseason Trade Targets

[Old school 1983]

No. No. No. Just stupid IMO to throw away the value we have in Suarez’s contract.

In the end I think Sox are going to unload Price or another pitcher to hold onto Betts.

Why is that stupid? Aside from contract value. What about on field value? At least double the WAR in 2020 in a going for it year and a similar if not higher WAR at a premium position, SS for the next what 5 years? Plus the defense is arguable better at SS 2b CF and maybe even 3b. Could be a massive improvement in 2020 and a good one going forward. But you know we gotta conflate value and performance.

[Coopdaddy67]

Suarez has one of the most valuable contracts in baseball. No chance I'd trade him if I were the Reds.

Personally, I hate the idea of giving up anything of significant value for rentals. If the Reds are going to use their prospect ammo to acquire established players, at least target those that are controllable.

One of the things I've always been intrigued by is the idea of taking a bad contract to limit prospect value you'd have to give up for someone like Betts. The Red Sox have made it pretty clear one of the primary goals is to reduce payroll and try to get out from under some of their unfriendly contracts.

[mth123]

My crazy plan:

Tyler Stephenson and Cody Reed for Starling Marte

Marte, Barnhart and India for Mookie Betts

Scott Schebler and Sal Romano to SF for Tony Watson

Sign Chirinos for a year. Sign Gio Gonzalez, Ryan Buchter and Cesar Hernandez.

Senzel CF
Votto 1B
Betts RF
Suarez 3B
Moustakas 2B
Winker/Aquino LF
Chirinos C
Galvis SS
Pitcher

Hernandez IF/OF (S)
Casali C (R)
VanMeter IF/OF (L)
Ervin/Jankowski (OF)

Castillo
Gray
Bauer
Desclafani
Gonzalez

Iglesias (CL)
Watson (L)
Garrett (L)
Buchter (L)
Lorenzen
Stephenson
Sims
Bowman

Mahle, Blandino, Kuhnel, Deleon, Farmer in AAA.

[Redsville]

I really hope we go for a SS or OF that is more of a plus AVG and clutch hitter with RISP than look for another who can hit 30 HRS but hover at .250 and not as clutch hitting. I think this type of player will have to be through trade at this point...I'd be good with signing a solid pitcher and trading for one of SS/OF that fits that mold. Fingers crossed Winter Meetings delivers both or lands the ground work with hints leaking out!

[Mitri]

My crazy plan:

Tyler Stephenson and Cody Reed for Starling Marte

Marte, Barnhart and India for Mookie Betts

Scott Schebler and Sal Romano to SF for Tony Watson

Sign Chirinos for a year. Sign Gio Gonzalez, Ryan Buchter and Cesar Hernandez.

Senzel CF
Votto 1B
Betts RF
Suarez 3B
Moustakas 2B
Winker/Aquino LF
Chirinos C
Galvis SS
Pitcher

Hernandez IF/OF (S)
Casali C (R)
VanMeter IF/OF (L)
Ervin/Jankowski (OF)

Castillo
Gray
Bauer
Desclafani
Gonzalez

Iglesias (CL)
Watson (L)
Garrett (L)
Buchter (L)
Lorenzen
Stephenson
Sims
Bowman

Mahle, Blandino, Kuhnel, Deleon, Farmer in AAA.

Ty Steve, Reed, Barnhart and India for a season of Betts at that salary? You crazy bruh.

[mth123]

Ty Steve, Reed, Barnhart and India for a season of Betts at that salary? You crazy bruh.

Nope. Barnhart is an interchangeable part and there are a half dozen guys like him in FA every year that can be had for the $4 million or so he makes. I view moving the 2021 guarantee of the books as a plus. Reed is an out of options question mark in a bullpen with too many guys like that. They can't keep them all and need to deal one or two anyway. India is blocked by Suarez and Moustakas, so we're talking basically Tyler Stephenson for one year of superior bat followed by a QO, a draft pick and $30 Million of playflex to replace him with.

[757690]

Ty Steve, Reed, Barnhart and India for a season of Betts at that salary? You crazy bruh.

Prediction:

This trade proposal eventually will be compared to the Votto/Bailey/Cueto for Bedard proposal.

[Redsville]

Still could trade for Merrifield and Mancini, sign Keuchel, move Suarez to LF. Empty the prospect cabinet to get those 2 trades done, and include Mahle if need be.

Senzel CF
Merrifield 2b
Moose 3b
Mancini RF
Suarez LF
Votto 1b
Galvis SS
BarnSali C

Castillo/Kuechel/Gray/Bauer/Disco

[mth123]

Prediction:

This trade proposal eventually will be compared to the Votto/Bailey/Cueto for Bedard proposal.

Which of those guys is going to be Votto? Barnhart?? Reed sure isn't going to be Bailey or Cueto. As a matter of fact, he's out of options and likely lost at the end of Spring Training. Or they may keep him and lose Sims. I personally prefer Sims over Reed, but I'd be OK trading him instead. A bullpen with both is too much uncertainty IMO, so one has to go.

[WrongVerb]

Prediction:

This trade proposal eventually will be compared to the Votto/Bailey/Cueto for Bedard proposal.

Nah. The proposed players aren't as good as the Votto/Bailey/Cueto triumvirate, and Betts is better now than Bedard was then.

Thing I wonder is: whoa going to catch?

[mth123]

Nah. The proposed players aren't as good as the Votto/Bailey/Cueto triumvirate, and Betts is better now than Bedard was then.

Thing I wonder is: whoa going to catch?

In the original scenario signing Chirinos was part of it.

Beyond 2020, well there are always a half dozen FA very much like Barnhart who canbe had for the same $4 Million or so that he would have made as the 2021 starting catcher. Hopefully with Barnhart out of the way, they'll make a move for a permanent upgrade.

[757690]

Nah. The proposed players aren't as good as the Votto/Bailey/Cueto triumvirate, and Betts is better now than Bedard was then.

Thing I wonder is: whoa going to catch?

It won’t be as bad, nothing will, but it’s trading 6+ years of two top prospects and others for a short term fix. And remember Betis will be getting paid over $20M next season, which makes his actual trade value not that high.

It’s a move that likely will kill a franchise’s chance at competing for years.

[757690]

Which of those guys is going to be Votto? Barnhart?? Reed sure isn't going to be Bailey or Cueto. As a matter of fact, he's out of options and likely lost at the end of Spring Training. Or they may keep him and lose Sims. I personally prefer Sims over Reed, but I'd be OK trading him instead. A bullpen with both is too much uncertainty IMO, so one has to go.

Ty Stephenson and India both have the potential to be well above average starters for many years. One thing to remember is that Votto was ranked right about where India is currently ranked on prospect lists.

[mth123]

Ty Stephenson and India both have the potential to be well above average starters for many years. One thing to remember is that Votto was ranked right about where India is currently ranked on prospect lists.

I'd rather not deal Stephenson, but I don't think he's an All Star. India is over-rated IMO. I'm guessing he'll be more like Alonso than Votto and he's already blocked and likely the guy traded. The Reds have a one year window even if they keep these guys. When Betts turns down his QO, the Reds get a draft pick or two and a bunch of payflex to fill his spot. Meanwhile, they will have another season of data on Senzel, Aquino and Winker and may actually have a better idea of what they need.

[WrongVerb]

It won’t be as bad, nothing will, but it’s trading 6+ years of two top prospects and others for a short term fix. And remember Betis will be getting paid over $20M next season, which makes his actual trade value not that high.

It’s a move that likely will kill a franchise’s chance at competing for years.

I don't think that's the case at all. I don't see the same potential in any of those players that each of VBC had in 2008. In fact, TySteve is the only one of that proposed group who would give me any pause in losing.