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Thread: Offseason Trade Targets

  1. #61
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Offseason Trade Targets

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Reds could do that. But I’d be surprised. Senzel needs his own position. Asking him to play both CF and second base on a regular basis is very sub-optimal. Every once in awhile, fine, a different matter.
    Why?

    The Cubs, Red Sox, Houston, Atlanta, the Yankees, Cardinals, and A's-- playoff teams all-- have moved young guys all around the field during the season.

    Why won't this work for the Reds?

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  4. #62
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    Re: Offseason Trade Targets

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Reds could do that. But I’d be surprised. Senzel needs his own position. Asking him to play both CF and second base on a regular basis is very sub-optimal. Every once in awhile, fine, a different matter.

    And Reds aren’t signing a Jonathan Schoop to play second base only against LHP. He’s a starting player.

    Peterson played CF for 5 innings total last year. His CF time has been reduced dramatically over the last few seasons.

    I guess anything could happen, Joc has a good bat, but I don’t see this scenario.
    I think Senzel could do it for a year. Brian Dozier might be a more realistic platoon option. Even Galvis might be OK on the short side of a platoon. I just don't like him in there every day and I think he's way more expensive than he needs to be. I think Pederson in CF might be the sticking point. He doesn't run as well as Senzel and short of dealing Bauer, which I think makes a ton of sense, I don't see a good fit with LA in a Pederson deal.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

  5. #63
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Offseason Trade Targets

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I don't see a good fit with LA in a Pederson deal.
    I suspect LA is dumping salary in order to sign Cole, Rendon, or another big splash.

    As a result, Pederson would be relatively cheap to acquire.

    (This may also be a reason to kick the tires on AJ Pollock. If you're into that kind of gamble.)

  6. #64
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Offseason Trade Targets

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Why?

    The Cubs, Red Sox, Houston, Atlanta, the Yankees, Cardinals, and A's-- playoff teams all-- have moved young guys all around the field during the season.

    Why won't this work for the Reds?
    I mean not really to that extent. Like, take Bregman with the Astros for example - yeah he played around a little bit, but for the the most part, he was a 3B that played SS one maybe a once a week basis at the most. He wasn’t playing two completely different up the middle spots on a regular basis. He was a 3B for 130 games of the year.

    On top of that, most of those guys blew up upon being called up pretty quickly, unlike Senzel who had a pretty pedestrian season as a rookie, to be generous. That’s not even factoring in his injuries.

    So if the idea is that Senzel primarily plays 2B and gets say ~20 starts in CF, yeah that might work, though I wouldn’t even want to try that given neither of those are his primary position. But honesty, with the way he debuted, I would prefer to stick him at one spot and just let him get used to the big leagues without worrying about where he’s going to play on a daily basis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    When it comes to crow, I'd like nothing more than to eat Dick's all season long and into the postseason.

  7. #65
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Offseason Trade Targets

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    I mean not really to that extent. Like, take Bregman with the Astros for example - yeah he played around a little bit, but for the the most part, he was a 3B that played SS one maybe a once a week basis at the most. He wasn’t playing two completely different up the middle spots on a regular basis. He was a 3B for 130 games of the year.

    On top of that, most of those guys blew up upon being called up pretty quickly, unlike Senzel who had a pretty pedestrian season as a rookie, to be generous. That’s not even factoring in his injuries.

    So if the idea is that Senzel primarily plays 2B and gets say ~20 starts in CF, yeah that might work, though I wouldn’t even want to try that given neither of those are his primary position. But honesty, with the way he debuted, I would prefer to stick him at one spot and just let him get used to the big leagues without worrying about where he’s going to play on a daily basis.
    Acuna played 100 games in CF and split the others between the other two OF spots. Austin Riley played half his limited games in LF and the others at 3B and 1B as he was breaking into the league and trying to hit big league pitching.

    Ian Happ has played just about everywhere-- three spots regularly. Javier Baez did the same thing until this season, splitting time nearly equally between 3B, 2B, and SS.

    George Springer split his time between the corners and CF nearly equally the past three seasons.

    The Yankees split Gleyber Torres' season nearly equally between SS and 2B this year, his second in the league.

    Good teams do this all the time with good young players.

    Why not do it with Senzel?

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    Re: Offseason Trade Targets

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Why?

    The Cubs, Red Sox, Houston, Atlanta, the Yankees, Cardinals, and A's-- playoff teams all-- have moved young guys all around the field during the season.

    Why won't this work for the Reds?
    Because it’s not the way to get the best performance from Senzel. It’s possible, but inadvisable.

    I heard Dick Williams last year say Senzel would remain in CF then. He didn’t want him “jerked around.”

    Now, Nick could move to second base. But I don’t think Reds will split him at two starting positions, one infield, one outfield. Two very different positions. Young player, had injuries, trying to get on track offensively.

    In a pinch, sure. For a week or two, sure. Maybe when he’s a more experienced veteran. Not now.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-17-2019 at 11:06 PM.

  9. #67
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Offseason Trade Targets

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Acuna played 100 games in CF and split the others between the other two OF spots. Austin Riley played half his limited games in LF and the others at 3B and 1B as he was breaking into the league and trying to hit big league pitching.

    Ian Happ has played just about everywhere-- three spots regularly. Javier Baez did the same thing until this season, splitting time nearly equally between 3B, 2B, and SS.

    George Springer split his time between the corners and CF nearly equally the past three seasons.

    The Yankees split Gleyber Torres' season nearly equally between SS and 2B this year, his second in the league.

    Good teams do this all the time with good young players.

    Why not do it with Senzel?
    There’s a pretty big difference between splitting time between a couple middle infield spots or playing all across the outfield, than splitting time between CF and 2B which are two completely different positions and among the most demanding on the field in their own right. Neither of which are his natural primary position either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    When it comes to crow, I'd like nothing more than to eat Dick's all season long and into the postseason.

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    Kc61 (11-18-2019)

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    Re: Offseason Trade Targets

    For me, Chris Taylor from the Dodgers would be a good target. Can play centerfield and SS also. Could be available also.

    Eric Lauer LHSP from the Padres seems to be the odd man out and while his ERA/FIP wasn't amazing last year, a lot of that had to do with Coors. Kid made 3 starts in Colorado and got beat up good there. His away from Coors ERA was 3.49. Another thing I like about him, is he does pretty well against RH batters. He is actually worse against lefties but I feel like that is easier to work on than vica versa.

    Eddie Rosario OF from the Twins is a guy that they seem to be considering moving away from.

    Daniel Norris LHSP from the Tigers is a guy that has struggles to be healthy and was once a top prospect. He is only 26 years old which surprised me.

  12. #69
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Offseason Trade Targets

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    There’s a pretty big difference between splitting time between a couple middle infield spots or playing all across the outfield, than splitting time between CF and 2B which are two completely different positions and among the most demanding on the field in their own right. Neither of which are his natural primary position either.
    Ian Happ waves hello.

    Javier Baez would too, but he's too busy playing both SS and the OF. And 2B.

  13. #70
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Offseason Trade Targets

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Ian Happ waves hello.

    Javier Baez would too, but he's too busy playing both SS and the OF. And 2B.
    Javier Baez has played a total of 4 innings in the outfield in his career. Otherwise it’s kind of the same deal, he’s playing a bunch of infield positions.

    And I want the Reds to be more selective and careful about developing Senzel than a team might be about developing a utility guy like Ian Happ.

    If it were a deal where we had an opening at 3B too, I could get on board with playing Senzel across 2B and 3B (and maybe even SS). But as it is, Nick didn’t exactly explode on the scene, and given his injury struggles, I’d much prefer to let him settle in at one spot and get familiar with it. I feel like that will at least help lessen the odds he runs into a wall again or gets blown up on a double play or something if he has more experience playing in a specific spot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    When it comes to crow, I'd like nothing more than to eat Dick's all season long and into the postseason.

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    757690 (11-18-2019),Kc61 (11-18-2019),Mitri (11-18-2019)

  15. #71
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    Re: Offseason Trade Targets

    I think Senzel becoming an above average player is the key to the Reds 2020 season. They simply can’t compete if he puts up a 2020 similar to his rookie season. I would resist moving him around and get him focused on one position.
    “We’re going to get the pitching.” -Bob Castellini
    “You got the pitching, now what?” - Reds fans

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    Re: Offseason Trade Targets

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I think Senzel becoming an above average player is the key to the Reds 2020 season. They simply can’t compete if he puts up a 2020 similar to his rookie season. I would resist moving him around and get him focused on one position.
    Reds see all this. Last year Senzel played 800.3 innings. 799.2 were in CF. He only played 1.1 innings elsewhere (second base).

  17. #73
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Offseason Trade Targets

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Javier Baez has played a total of 4 innings in the outfield in his career. Otherwise it’s kind of the same deal, he’s playing a bunch of infield positions.

    And I want the Reds to be more selective and careful about developing Senzel than a team might be about developing a utility guy like Ian Happ.

    If it were a deal where we had an opening at 3B too, I could get on board with playing Senzel across 2B and 3B (and maybe even SS). But as it is, Nick didn’t exactly explode on the scene, and given his injury struggles, I’d much prefer to let him settle in at one spot and get familiar with it. I feel like that will at least help lessen the odds he runs into a wall again or gets blown up on a double play or something if he has more experience playing in a specific spot.
    1. Ian Happ was widely regarded as a top 100 prospect and even made a few top 50 lists. It's not like he was chopped liver.

    In fact, there are lots of examples of kids moving among multiple positions across baseball. If you want to whataboutism it down to specifically OF spots and middle IF spots, there are still plenty to choose from. Just from the last two years, I've got:

    Brandon Lowe, TB
    Joey Wendle, TB
    Cavan Biggio, TOR
    Lourdes Gurriel, TOR
    Hunter Dozier, KC
    Chad Pinder, OAK
    David Fletcher, LAA
    Jeff McNeil, NYM
    Scott Kingery, PHI
    Tommy Edman, STL
    Yairo Munoz, STL

    This isn't something that's ground-breaking or even outside the box.

    It happens. Especially with good teams.

    Why not take advantage of Senzel's ability to play multiple spots?

    Injury? Development?

    He can get injured doing anything. He's learned both CF and 2B. He's shown enough affinity to be at least league average for both spots. (I assume this because he was named the top defensive 2B in AAA in 2018.) And, in learning CF this season, he's already developed enough to be tried at the spot. He's learned the rules. Why not take advantage of his particular skill set?

    Dismiss it and, IMO, you're making your team far worse.

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    Redeyecat (11-19-2019)

  19. #74
    Member GADawg's Avatar
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    Re: Offseason Trade Targets

    Merri field is my guy I think....I’d love to see one guy at the top of the order consistently

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    OhioRiverBarge (11-18-2019)

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    Re: Offseason Trade Targets

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    1. Ian Happ was widely regarded as a top 100 prospect and even made a few top 50 lists. It's not like he was chopped liver.

    In fact, there are lots of examples of kids moving among multiple positions across baseball. If you want to whataboutism it down to specifically OF spots and middle IF spots, there are still plenty to choose from. Just from the last two years, I've got:

    Brandon Lowe, TB
    Joey Wendle, TB
    Cavan Biggio, TOR
    Lourdes Gurriel, TOR
    Hunter Dozier, KC
    Chad Pinder, OAK
    David Fletcher, LAA
    Jeff McNeil, NYM
    Scott Kingery, PHI
    Tommy Edman, STL
    Yairo Munoz, STL

    This isn't something that's ground-breaking or even outside the box.

    It happens. Especially with good teams.

    Why not take advantage of Senzel's ability to play multiple spots?

    Injury? Development?

    He can get injured doing anything. He's learned both CF and 2B. He's shown enough affinity to be at least league average for both spots. (I assume this because he was named the top defensive 2B in AAA in 2018.) And, in learning CF this season, he's already developed enough to be tried at the spot. He's learned the rules. Why not take advantage of his particular skill set?

    Dismiss it and, IMO, you're making your team far worse.
    I’m interested to know examples of young players with two starting positions, one infield and one outfield, on a regular basis. Such as CF against RHP, second base against LHP. Simultaneous, not mid-season position switches. And for an extended period, not just filling in.

    I doubt Reds would do it with Senzel, but still as an academic matter, I’d be interested to know this.

    Again - two regular starting positions, one infield, one outfield - for an extended period of time, young player.

    Try to avoid first base. But whatever, if anyone knows.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-18-2019 at 04:13 PM.


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