Astros stolen signs scandal

[FlightRick]

The difference between using players/coaches on the field to steal signs and using cameras to steal signs is the same difference between using a weights to get stronger and using steroids to get stronger.

This is spot-on.

And yet, there are people who have sincerely made the case for "decriminalizing" steroids, because everybody has access to them, and just because some people choose NOT to do them doesn't mean you should punish whoever is willing to risk the side effects to "be better at their job, because they are paid a lot of money to be good at it." I'm paraphrasing, but that's a thing people have argued.

So of course, some people think "cheat away, now I'm allowed to cheat harder" when it comes to sign stealing. I'm more of a "do unto others" guy, and make the conscious choice to play nice.... but even if you want to be a person who advocates gamesmanship and all the nonsense that comes with it, I think you do it on the field and in the moment. Hidden ball tricks, covering a base to fake out a baserunner, or even trying to steal a sign from second base, OK, whatever. The Astros, the Patriots, cameras, manipulating balls, and yes, PEDs can go burn in hell, though.

[JFLegal]

Here’s a video of it happening for the record

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2XNW1qHN9w

the guy who puts those vids together is excellent at his craft. same guy who produced the hilarious reds-pirates fight video, including subtitles and all that jazz. chris archer's least-favorite video of all time.

[JFLegal]

Might help explain why even during Castillo’s dominant run, he had such terrible games against The Brewers. If they knew a change up was coming of course they’d lay off of it.

Could have also been that he just happened to have bad games, but it was very peculiar at the time.

not to mention all of these hitters who suddenly look like babe ruth when they play for the brewers. yes, they play in a hitter's park, but still. it's wild how many guys have career years playing for milwaukee.

[membengal]

Some of you all being weirdly sanguine about this - one of THE keys to successful pitching is the ability to change speeds to keep hitters off-balance. It is crucial. The Astros were using video to instantaneously transmit the sign to the dugout who was able to signal the Astro hitters if an off-speed pitch was coming. That is NOT remotely the same thing as gamesmanship surrounding the runner on second being clever and trying to signal. That is something else entirely. And it takes away one of the main weapons a pitcher has- the element of surprise with respect to when they wish to change speeds.

Come on, folks, let's not pretend this is all somehow very normal. It is not.

[membengal]

Might help explain why even during Castillo’s dominant run, he had such terrible games against The Brewers. If they knew a change up was coming of course they’d lay off of it.

Could have also been that he just happened to have bad games, but it was very peculiar at the time.

For sure. That early start he had in April this year when he was dominant but in Milwaukee they were able to lay off his off-speed and otherwise wore him out. Stuck out as an outlier. Don't know how they would be doing it, but IF they are doing it, would explain some things. Might also comfort us to know that perhaps if Yellich had ended up here he would not have been as good as he has been in Milwaukee...

[membengal]

Luis Castillo against the Brewers in 2019:

April 3 - home game - 7 innings 1 hit 1 ER 1 BB 9 Ks (and a loss, because that was the only good game Wily Peralta pitched all season)

May 22 at Milwaukee - 2 2/3 innings 5 hits 4 runs (all earned) 3 BB and 2 Ks - Brewers ended up winning that game 11-9

June 22 at Milwaukee - 3 2/3 innings 5 hits 6 runs (four earned) 5 BB and 6 Ks - Brewers won 7-2

July 4 - home game - 7 2/3 innings 1 hit 0 runs 1 BB and 9 Ks ---Reds won 1-0

So...do with that what you will. In a year where Castillo was generally dominant against most everyone - the two starts at home against what happened when he faced Milwaukee on the road is...eyebrow raising. I am raising my eyebrows.

[Wonderful Monds]

not to mention all of these hitters who suddenly look like babe ruth when they play for the brewers. yes, they play in a hitter's park, but still. it's wild how many guys have career years playing for milwaukee.

That’s what I was referring to in terms of Milwaukee having allegations against them. Their hitters often have pretty dramatic home/road splits.

[DocRed]

That’s what I was referring to in terms of Milwaukee having allegations against them. Their hitters often have pretty dramatic home/road splits.

https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/...sign-stealers/

[kaldaniels]

I think all this points to wireless tech being used in the very near future.

How hard could it be to pull this (cheating) off?

A hidden camera? (Easy)
A phone in a pocket that vibrates? (Easy)
Sound effect. (Easy...mix it up as needed)

Done.

Now if someone rats you out after the fact you will get nailed but what’s done is done.

[kaldaniels]

That’s what I was referring to in terms of Milwaukee having allegations against them. Their hitters often have pretty dramatic home/road splits.

I bought this up during the season (there had been suspicions after Yelich’s hot start/numbers at home) and got swiftly rebutted. Millions of dollars are on the line - do we really think this stuff doesn’t go on?

[WrongVerb]

Kevin Gausman
@KevinGausman
This Astros thing is bad!!! Guys lost jobs, got sent down, missed service time bc of how they were hit in HOU. Does anyone really think they only did this in 17? #getreal

7:25am · 14 Nov 2019

[WrongVerb]

I do find it curious that, if this was going on during the playoffs, that the team would have need to suss out Tyler Glasnow's tell in game 5 of the Division Series.

I'm not defending them. Just curious as to why they put in the effort.

[membengal]

I mean, c'mon. Gamesmanship? Everyone does it? please. Just, please.

https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1195025710726946816

[Ironman92]

I think there’s a big difference doing it from the dugout and having to think about it and instantaneously just getting it in film.

My key point is why are the signs so easy to steal....just mix up the numbers.

[Ironman92]

It's one thing to steal signs using players or coaches. The pitcher and catcher can change up the signs and it will take time for the other team to sort out the new signs. Also, players and coaches have to keep their attention on the game, so sign-stealing is a bit of a "divided attention" endeavor. However, using technology such as cameras and a dedicated staff member in the stands and you can figure out the new signs pretty quickly and relay that information to the dugout in short order. People complain about the length of games as it it. We don't really want to have pitchers and catchers taking up more time working out elaborate signal sequences to combat technological sign stealing, do we?

Just mix it up...just not that hard. Period

Kinda like pitching OMG