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Thread: Reds Interested in Ozuna Per Heyman

  1. #46
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    Re: Reds Interested in Ozuna Per Heyman

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    You’re right. They did nothing. And the things they did do and accomplish were merely luck. Gummer is right. They won’t make any significant offense moves either this offseason. And if they do and workout it’s just 50/50 luck.

    It seems like you want to attribute any good fortune (Gray) to luck. And bad fortune/injuries (Wood) to inability. Can’t have it both ways.

    The Reds replaced 3/5 of the rotation last offseason. With two guys who had 1/2 upside. Wood and Gray. And a solid serviceable starter in Roark. And got Cy Young upside in the season in Bauer.

    15-20 years ago I’d completely agree with your 5 inning comment but it’s a different game now.

    I guess you agree with Mr. Gummer that the Reds offense will look exactly as it is now on opening day. That’s the argument you’re agreeing with.
    Wood did nothing. Bauer was not an offseason acquisition, matter of fact he was acquired for a big offensive offseason acquisition. And did nothing for us last year. Anybody can find a Tanner Roark for peanuts to put in the back of your rotation. Ask Oakland.

    Also, considering the most starts in order were Castillo(32), Gray/Declafani(31), Mahle(25) and Roark(21) your often repeated "we replaced 3/5 of the rotation last offseason" is totally false. With Bauer providing 10 starts, Sims 4 starts and Gausman 1 start, that's 103 starts that were NOT acquired last offseason. That equals out to 1.82 of every 5 games coming from last offseason's acquisitions. That means they replaced 1.82/5 of our rotation last offseason. Can we now put that ridiculously false 3/5 to rest now?
    Last edited by foster15; 11-13-2019 at 07:03 PM.


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  3. #47
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    Re: Reds Interested in Ozuna Per Heyman

    Quote Originally Posted by foster15 View Post
    Wood did nothing. Bauer was not an offseason acquisition, matter of fact he was acquired for a big offensive offseason acquisition. And did nothing for us last year. Anybody can find a Tanner Roark for peanuts to put in the back of your rotation. Ask Oakland.

    Also, considering the most starts in order were Castillo(32), Gray/Declafani(31), Mahle(25) and Roark(21) your often repeated "we replaced 3/5 of the rotation last offseason" is totally false. With Bauer providing 10 starts, Sims 4 starts and Gausman 1 start, that's 103 starts that were NOT acquired last offseason.
    Ok. Let’s not count Bauer. Let’s not count anything that happened in Spring training or the season if the scope is strictly the offseason. Show me where you said Wood would be terrible or get hurt. You likely can’t. He had the best career numbers of any guy the team acquired. Number 2 upside. That was a case of crap happens. Gray had number one upside. Saw it in Oakland. And obviously Derek Johnson saw it in him and got it out of him. Roark has been a solid innings eater if not better his whole career. Obvious improvement. That’s 3 of 5 rotation members at the end of the offseason that were easy large upgrades. And in 2019 baseball the 5 inning argument doesn’t hold a ton of water. I don’t like that change in the game but it’s there. There’s no arguing it. Last offseason the Reds upgraded 3 of 5 pitching slots. Period. Just give credit where credit is due.

    And also you never did answer the real question here. Do you believe the Reds offense will be no different and no better than it is right now when they head to Arizona?
    Last edited by Old school 1983; 11-13-2019 at 07:19 PM.

  4. #48
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    Re: Reds Interested in Ozuna Per Heyman

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    Ok. Let’s not count Bauer. Let’s not count anything that happened in Spring training or the season if the scope is strictly the offseason. Show me where you said Wood would be terrible or get hurt. You likely can’t. He had the best career numbers of any guy the team acquired. Number 2 upside. That was a case of crap happens. Gray had number one upside. Saw it in Oakland. And obviously Derek Johnson saw it in him and got it out of him. Roark has been a solid innings eater if not better his whole career. Obvious improvement. That’s 3 of 5 rotation members at the end of the offseason that were easy large upgrades. And in 2019 baseball the 5 inning argument doesn’t hold a ton of water. I don’t like that change in the game but it’s there. There’s no arguing it. Last offseason the Reds upgraded 3 of 5 pitching slots. Period. Just give credit where credit is due.

    And also you never did answer the real question here. Do you believe the Reds offense will be no different and no better than it is right now when they head to Arizona?
    Do I believe it will be different? Yes. Do I believe it will be better? Well yeah in the context that it cannot get any worse. Do I think our overall pitching will be better or worse should be the question because it has to be better for us to contend and I don't see it happening. Matter of fact, I could see regression happening.

  5. #49
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    Re: Reds Interested in Ozuna Per Heyman

    Quote Originally Posted by foster15 View Post
    Do I believe it will be different? Yes. Do I believe it will be better? Well yeah in the context that it cannot get any worse. Do I think our overall pitching will be better or worse should be the question because it has to be better for us to contend and I don't see it happening. Matter of fact, I could see regression happening.
    I could see a regression in the staff too. No doubt about that. And the offense could get worse? I’m not sure of the exact rankings off of the top of my head, but I don’t think they were last in all baseball. Unless there’s injuries or just a guy taking a complete nose dive my money is on a better offense this year.

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    Re: Reds Interested in Ozuna Per Heyman

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    I could see a regression in the staff too. No doubt about that. And the offense could get worse? I’m not sure of the exact rankings off of the top of my head, but I don’t think they were last in all baseball. Unless there’s injuries or just a guy taking a complete nose dive my money is on a better offense this year.
    Reds were 24th offensive when the home team, 26th when the road team and 25th overall. I really don't see them getting worse. First of all, I figure Joey Votto will have a decent bounce this season(probably bad regression after that). This team needs to sign Scooter for sure to have a little hope that things can revert somewhat close to 2018. Pitching? I just cannot feel like we're locked in, even the starting staff. Castillo still has a lot to prove, Gray also. If you asked me who I'd bet improves I'd say Disco. But this team is just eons away from having a Scherzer/Strasburg 1/2 punch that you can count on year in and year out, that I'm just not that confident.

    I think they did a few things last year because of it being the 150th anniversary and the Marty party and will try and live off of the goodwill established by that for the next few years while things deteriorate again. It's their way. Nothing about this team looks like it can compare 2012 to me, not even close, no matter what they do in the off-season.

  7. #51
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    Re: Reds Interested in Ozuna Per Heyman

    Quote Originally Posted by foster15 View Post
    Yes, 50/50. Everyone in the world had him penned in one of two directions, returning to the ace 1st round draft pick he was about 4 or 5 years ago or finished. Nobody could predict with any confidence he would perform like he did last season.

    So what did the Reds say prior to last season regarding starting pitching? That they would improve? lol, pretty hard not to when you've reached rock bottom. Big flippen deal.
    I would even say that Grey was a fantastic move that the front office should get credit for.
    Bauer? Right now, too close to call.
    Wood? BAD BAD BAD
    Roark? Decent, but honestly legitimate MLB clubs make moves like that every year. It just seemed special this year, because the Reds will usually run a Clausen, Finnigan or some other bad kid out there (or a bad vet that they are too cheap to cut) , just to save money.

    So I see your point of view. They added Grey. Fantastic. They didn't really do a whole lot else, for all the promises made. If Bauer has a good 2020 and the Reds contend, I will retroactively give them credit for that too, right now , it is just too early to tell. If Bauer wins a Cy Young and leaves as a free agent and the Reds don't contend, it has to be considered a mistake as well, IMO.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  8. #52
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    Re: Reds Interested in Ozuna Per Heyman

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    I would even say that Grey was a fantastic move that the front office should get credit for.
    Bauer? Right now, too close to call.
    Wood? BAD BAD BAD
    Roark? Decent, but honestly legitimate MLB clubs make moves like that every year. It just seemed special this year, because the Reds will usually run a Clausen, Finnigan or some other bad kid out there (or a bad vet that they are too cheap to cut) , just to save money.

    So I see your point of view. They added Grey. Fantastic. They didn't really do a whole lot else, for all the promises made. If Bauer has a good 2020 and the Reds contend, I will retroactively give them credit for that too, right now , it is just too early to tell. If Bauer wins a Cy Young and leaves as a free agent and the Reds don't contend, it has to be considered a mistake as well, IMO.
    Is there some kind of secret report out there saying that the Reds knew Wood was injured and would barely play for them. There a difference between a bad move and a move that just didn’t work as planned. Wood is the latter.

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    Re: Reds Interested in Ozuna Per Heyman

    I have never seen this mentioned and I apologize if it has been but does anyone believe Gray would have signed an extension to be here had the Reds not already added Roark and done the Dodgers deal at least showing that they were trying to put a contender on the field? I know some of the moves didn't work out and people can rail on that all they want. The biggest fail in my mind was not trading Greene plus for Yelich. Some of the people on this board including me were begging to acquire Yelich and myself and a few others were perfectly ok with moving Greene for him. Had the Reds made that one move, how close would they be right now to a contender?

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    Re: Reds Interested in Ozuna Per Heyman

    Quote Originally Posted by SErebel11 View Post
    I have never seen this mentioned and I apologize if it has been but does anyone believe Gray would have signed an extension to be here had the Reds not already added Roark and done the Dodgers deal at least showing that they were trying to put a contender on the field? I know some of the moves didn't work out and people can rail on that all they want. The biggest fail in my mind was not trading Greene plus for Yelich. Some of the people on this board including me were begging to acquire Yelich and myself and a few others were perfectly ok with moving Greene for him. Had the Reds made that one move, how close would they be right now to a contender?
    I think this is a fantastic point that I hadn't even thought of. The Reds off-season last year showed they were willing to try. That's something they hadn't shown in a quite a while. It wasn't just the fanbase who took notice.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

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    Re: Reds Interested in Ozuna Per Heyman

    From what Dick Williams says in this article I doubt he has any interest in Ozuna.

    We do see a need to just make sure we’re getting better overall,” Williams said. “It’s getting offensive production up. There are a lot of ways you can contribute to that. It is about making sure we put a good defensive club on the field. It’s not like we can focus on hitters that can’t play defense. We’re in the National League. We don’t have a DH. We need a flexible roster. We still need athletic players, so you can’t just go all-in on bangers.”
    https://www.cincinnati.com/story/spo...on/2583140001/

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    M2 (11-14-2019)

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    Re: Reds Interested in Ozuna Per Heyman

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    Is there some kind of secret report out there saying that the Reds knew Wood was injured and would barely play for them. There a difference between a bad move and a move that just didn’t work as planned. Wood is the latter.
    I agree with your point, but Wood came to spring training hurt, and it looks like he never recovered. I don't remember exactly, but didn't Wood have injury issues in his previous season, which may have been a partial reason why he was left off the playoff roster?

    Either the Reds did not do due diligence, or they decided to roll the dice and hope he got better with rest. IMO, this was not a surprise injury. Now, in a vacuum, this trade was made early in the winter. I don't think Grey or Roark was acquired yet. So they were desperate for pitching depth. So I can understand why they took the risk. Still , we have to say it was a bad move.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    Re: Reds Interested in Ozuna Per Heyman

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    From what Dick Williams says in this article I doubt he has any interest in Ozuna.



    https://www.cincinnati.com/story/spo...on/2583140001/
    This is an encouraging quote. We could use some improvement on defense too.
    Maybe this is another hint about who might be traded this winter. Maybe we get
    a real CF.

    It might be a reason why Galvis was retained. He is one of the more athletic players on the team.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  19. #58
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    Re: Reds Interested in Ozuna Per Heyman

    I wouldn't go after Ozuna as he had rejected the QO. This team needs to acquire younger talent through the draft and forfeiting a top 80 pick is not wise. There are other options IMHO who will be cheaper and give us solid production.

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    Re: Reds Interested in Ozuna Per Heyman

    Not the right target. Keep moving.

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    Re: Reds Interested in Ozuna Per Heyman

    Can understand why Corey Dickerson isn’t the right target both in dollars and no QO.


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