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View Poll Results: #4 on the Farm?!

Voters
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  • 2B Tyler Callihan

    0 0%
  • CF Stuart Fairchild

    1 1.85%
  • SS Jose Garcia

    37 68.52%
  • CF Jameson Hannah

    0 0%
  • 3B Rece Hinds

    0 0%
  • 3B Jonathan India

    14 25.93%
  • RHSP Lyon Richardson

    0 0%
  • RHSP Antonio Santillan

    2 3.70%
  • CF Mike Siani

    0 0%
  • Other - Specify in Comments

    0 0%
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Thread: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #4 Prospect???

  1. #16
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #4 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuff Nut View Post
    Look smartass, nobody said that.
    It was a joke
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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  3. #17
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #4 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuff Nut View Post
    Ok, but I'm not buying what they are selling. I admit I don't know much about the kid,, since he is a newbie to the organization, but having never heard of him, prior to the trade, and his not wowing us when he got here. I don't see top 10.
    I'll go a step farther, BA fell and hit its head on a rock. Hannah's filler. If BA gave him a ranking, trade him this winter so some other organization can brag it got a top 10 prospect from the Reds.
    Last edited by M2; 11-29-2019 at 12:38 PM.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

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    Mitri (11-29-2019),Tuff Nut (11-29-2019)

  5. #18
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #4 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuff Nut View Post
    Look smartass, nobody said that.
    Take it easy....he was agreeing with you in "smartass" vernacular. I didnt read it as an insult at all. The insult was for BA who have pretty screwy rankings at times.
    Last edited by RedlegJake; 11-29-2019 at 12:56 PM.
    99% of all numbers only tell 33% of the story so when looking at the numbers remember that numbers is plural...

  6. #19
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #4 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I'll go a step farther, BA fell and hit its head on a rock. Hannah's filler. If BA gave him a ranking, trade him this winter so some other organization can brag it got a top 10 prospect from the Reds.
    He has some tools. There is supposedly some power in there somewhere. He's a true CF (though with a fringy arm). I don't know if he's top 10 in a relatively top-heavy Cincinnati pipeline, but he's probably in the top 15.

    Really, after the top eight or so, you could flip a coin.

  7. #20
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #4 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    If you factor in context those 2018 numbers don’t really paint the kind of picture you want it to.

    India’s .814 OPS was heavily influenced by him tearing up rookie ball Greenville. Once he was called up to Dayton he didn’t hit very well (.724 OPS) and was basically age neutral for the level (it is somewhat alarming he didn’t tear up the Midwest league as a batter that was considered the top college bat in the draft). Garcia on the other hand spent all of 2018 in Dayton as a 2 year old (1.5 years younger than average age). He then in 2019 was one of the best power hitters in A+. India’s OPS has been dependent on OBP, which is fine at the major league level, but taking a walk against a bunch of dudes who will be insurance salesmen and truck drivers in a year or two? Meh. I prefer the power showing at that level, especially in Florida which notoriously kills power numbers. Garcia hit 37!! Doubles last year as a 21 year old at A+. That’s a ton.

    At this point Garcia is clearly above India IMO
    Never make judgments by a slight statistical advantage in one season below AA. That’s the biggest flaw in all the Garcia hype.

    India has the better pre-draft history, his high MILB OBP is a good thing, shows good plate discipline, we’ll see much better power going forward. Just as happened in the SEC where he was player of the year.

    The right view on Garcia should be hopeful caution. Hope he works out.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-29-2019 at 02:10 PM.

  8. #21
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #4 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    India has the better history...
    Nah.

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  10. #22
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #4 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Nah.
    Read the write ups of India and Garcia in the BA prospect list that very recently came out. Good analyses in there.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-29-2019 at 02:24 PM.

  11. #23
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #4 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Read the write ups of India and Garcia in the BA prospect list that very recently came out. Good analyses in there.
    India has tools, sure.

    So does Garcia.

    The difference is that Garcia has done more with his tools, plays a more demanding position, and doesn't rely on taking a walk for his OPS/ OPB.

    IMO, Garcia betters India across four of the six scouting tools (glove, arm, speed, hit are all easily Garcia), and you could make an argument he's done the same in the fifth (power). The only way India is better is patience/ approach.

    Too, India will have to hit at a clip far better than Garcia to accrue as much value simply due to positional scarcity. You can throw a rock and hit a 2B or 3B with power.

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  13. #24
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #4 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Never make judgments by a slight statistical advantage in one season below AA. That’s the biggest flaw in all the Garcia hype.

    India has the better pre-draft history, his high MILB OBP is a good thing, shows good plate discipline, we’ll see much better power going forward. Just as happened in the SEC where he was player of the year.

    The right view on Garcia should be hopeful caution. Hope he works out.
    Garcia absolutely needs to follow up on his 2019 season to establish himself as the real thing. However, he put a range of abilities on display - hitting, power, speed, defense. He's a tooled-up SS. Guys like that generally demand attention. India's got a real problem putting his bat on the ball. It's not just the BA. He doesn't hit many doubles either. I don't know what India really is as a player. Seriously, I'm not sure he's notably good at anything. However, I do know his hit tool is a major issue. I'm still going to vote for him after Garcia (because the system is so thin), but India's got to show he's something more than a low ceiling prospect.
    Last edited by M2; 11-29-2019 at 02:58 PM.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

    Coddle thy pitchers.

  14. #25
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #4 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post

    The difference is that Garcia has done more with his tools, plays a more demanding position, and doesn't rely on taking a walk for his OPS/ OPB.
    .
    This proves my point. Everybody is all ga-ga about one season in A+ ball. Garcia has, as you put it, done “more” in one season at High A ball.

    This why I refer people to the BA write up which objectively puts these guys in context. No wild praise for either, just a sound objective analysis.

    As for tools, I do believe we’ll see the power with India this coming season. As for Garcia, I’m unsure - but cautiously optimistic - he’ll hit AA pitching. We’ll see.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-29-2019 at 03:02 PM.

  15. #26
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #4 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    This proves my point. Everybody is all ga-ga about one season in A+ ball. Garcia has, as you put it, done “more” in one season at High A ball.

    This why I refer people to the BA write up which objectively puts these guys in context. No wild praise for either, just a sound objective analysis, but we’ll find out.

    As for tools, I do believe we’ll see the power with India this coming season. As for Garcia, I’m cautiously optimistic he’ll hit AA pitching.
    Garcia broke out. India got exposed. It would be foolish to ignore that.

    As for power, Garcia had 46 XBH in 452 PA while India had 34 XBH in 512 PA. Maybe India would see a big power jump if he could sort out his hit tool, but his lack of effective contact is undercutting his present power.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

    Coddle thy pitchers.

  16. #27
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #4 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    This why I refer people to the BA write up which objectively puts these guys in context. No wild praise for either, just a sound objective analysis.
    BA hasn't been particularly good at prospect analysis for a long, long time. They have blind spots-- like tooled up middle of the field defenders whose numbers are masked by league effects. They also have biases-- like high draftees.

    I have no dog in this fight either. I'm the very model of unbiased when it comes to analysis between India and Garcia.

  17. #28
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #4 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    It was a joke
    Aren't jokes supposed to be funny? Try telling a funny one next time and we won't have this problem

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  19. #29
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #4 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    Take it easy....he was agreeing with you in "smartass" vernacular. I didnt read it as an insult at all. The insult was for BA who have pretty screwy rankings at times.
    No, he admitted that it was a joke, not an insult for BA

  20. #30
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #4 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    Take it easy....he was agreeing with you in "smartass" vernacular. I didnt read it as an insult at all. The insult was for BA who have pretty screwy rankings at times.
    People really need to lighten up around here, thought it was very obvious I was joking around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Aren't jokes supposed to be funny? Try telling a funny one next time and we won't have this problem
    Ok officer
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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