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View Poll Results: Make Your Selections (no more than 10)

Voters
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  • Bobby Abreu

    8 8.51%
  • Josh Beckett

    1 1.06%
  • Heath Bell

    0 0%
  • Barry Bonds

    61 64.89%
  • Eric Chavez

    1 1.06%
  • Roger Clemens

    60 63.83%
  • Adam Dunn

    10 10.64%
  • Chone Figgins

    0 0%
  • Rafael Furcal

    0 0%
  • Jason Giambi

    2 2.13%
  • Todd Helton

    37 39.36%
  • Raul Ibanez

    0 0%
  • Derek Jeter

    85 90.43%
  • Andruw Jones

    25 26.60%
  • Jeff Kent

    19 20.21%
  • Paul Konerko

    8 8.51%
  • Cliff Lee

    5 5.32%
  • Carlos Pena

    0 0%
  • Brad Penny

    0 0%
  • Andy Pettitte

    27 28.72%
  • J.J. Putz

    0 0%
  • Manny Ramirez

    54 57.45%
  • Brian Roberts

    0 0%
  • Scott Rolen

    50 53.19%
  • Curt Schilling

    54 57.45%
  • Gary Sheffield

    27 28.72%
  • Alfonso Soriano

    2 2.13%
  • Sammy Sosa

    26 27.66%
  • Jose Valverde

    0 0%
  • Omar Vizquel

    19 20.21%
  • Billy Wagner

    22 23.40%
  • Larry Walker

    68 72.34%
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Thread: RedsZone's 2020 BBWAA HOF Ballot Vote

  1. #91
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    Re: RedsZone's 2020 BBWAA HOF Ballot Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Of course there are stats other than OPS. If you want to discuss other ones, have at it. Here you've chosen to bring up OPS+ in Colorado was 147. Montreal was 128. I think that's a significant difference. If his road stats were Hall of Fame worthy he'd get my vote. For his career, his road OPS was .865. If you don't like OPS, fine. Pick a stat. They were worse across the board on the road
    If you take off his first two years which were not good his ops+ would be 134 same as it was in St Louis which is still lower than Colorado, but still great. His first two years in Colorado were worse then his last year in Montreal. If it were the humidor effect why wouldn't he of exploded his first year not his third year. Not too mention covering Coors outfield is not easy and he was great.

    I have seen the argument about the Coors field effect on here before, and if I remember correctly the general consensus is the numbers usually translate after they leave. As for his road OPS .865 is still good. He is not a first ballot hall of famer hence why it took him so long. But he dominates for 6 straight seasons and deserved to make it.

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  3. #92
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: RedsZone's 2020 BBWAA HOF Ballot Vote

    A road OPS of .865 is pretty good.
    Before I post the following I want to preface it with stating that Carl Yastrzemski was a better player than Larry Walker, and he blows Walker away in most counting stats, having played many more games, being more durable, and having a career WAR of 96.4 compared to Walker's 72.7 [72.7 is still a HOF number].
    Anyway, Yaz's home career line of batting average, OBP, slugging percentage and OPS was .306/.402/.503/.904. Walker's was .348/.431/.637/.1.068. Walker's was better and shows a bigger home field boost than Yaz got.
    However, Yaz's road career line was .264/.357/.422/.779. Walker's career road line was .278/.370/.495/.865. Walker beats Yaz across the board on the road.
    Now Yaz played most of his career [1961-83] in a less batter friendly era than did Walker in the 90s and 00s. Baseball Reference's stats neutralizer, that adjusts numbers to a neutral environment, gives Yaz a career line, home and away, of .284/.378/.459/.837. Walker's career line by that measure is .289/.373/.522/.895. Their numbers are much closer, and Yaz actually edges Walker in adjusted OBP,. 378 to .373, but they are close. Again Yaz's durability and longer career gives him the edge but they are very close.
    I haven't checked out Billy Williams by this measure but I expect we would find similar results and that having Wrigley Field as his home park and playing his home games in the daytime boosted the stats of Williams.
    The "Coors Effect" is real, it gave me pause when evaluating Walker as a Hall of Famer, it gives me pause when evaluating Todd Helton (I'm on the fence there), but Walker was a legitimately great player and I finally favored his election to the HOF.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  4. #93
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: RedsZone's 2020 BBWAA HOF Ballot Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Sure didn't. I don't think Larry Walker belongs. He played at Coors Field before the humidor and all. So I judged him on his road stats. They weren't HoF worthy.
    Nor were Duke Snider's then.
    Snider had a career BA, OBP, SLG, OPS at home of .304/.390/.569/.959, but on the road he had .287/.369/.511/.880, not that different that Walker's road numbers of .278/.370/.495/.865. Unlike Yaz, Snider played most of his career [1947-64] in a batter environment as friendly to hitters as much of Walker's career. The stats neutralizer gives Snider an adjusted career line of .285/.368/.520/.888 compared to Walker's .289/.373/.522/.895. Snider and Walker are virtually identical twins by that measure.
    Someone certainly can argue that the HOF should be limited to players with stats as good as Babe Ruth and Willie Mays, and that way we could have an induction ceremony for somone every decade or so. Eighty years of voting has established a standard of sorts that says Duke Snider is a Hall of Famer-by that standard so is Larry Walker.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  5. #94
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: RedsZone's 2020 BBWAA HOF Ballot Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    Nor were Duke Snider's then.
    Snider had a career BA, OBP, SLG, OPS at home of .304/.390/.569/.959, but on the road he had .287/.369/.511/.880, not that different that Walker's road numbers of .278/.370/.495/.865. Unlike Yaz, Snider played most of his career [1947-64] in a batter environment as friendly to hitters as much of Walker's career. The stats neutralizer gives Snider an adjusted career line of .285/.368/.520/.888 compared to Walker's .289/.373/.522/.895. Snider and Walker are virtually identical twins by that measure.
    Someone certainly can argue that the HOF should be limited to players with stats as good as Babe Ruth and Willie Mays, and that way we could have an induction ceremony for somone every decade or so. Eighty years of voting has established a standard of sorts that says Duke Snider is a Hall of Famer-by that standard so is Larry Walker.
    I never saw Duke Snider play so my picture of him is far from complete but in looking at his stats Larry Walker had a far greater home/road disparity.

    Walker home/road OPS 1.068/.865
    Snider .959/.880

    So Snider, who lived in a far, far more pitcher friendly time, had a higher road OPS than Walker.

    It's a close call, unlike Bobby Abreu, but Walker doesn't pass my test


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