Didi to Philly

[Wheelhouse]

Maybe he likes cheesesteaks better than chili.

Our winning better than losing.

[Sea Ray]

But that's like saying that Castillo might be an alien instead of a human.. It's a fact that we don't absolutely know if that's true or not. However, chances are that Castillo is actually a human.
At some point, it seems reasonable to make logical conclusions.

Hypothetically, the Reds could have offered Didi a one year contract for 5 million and still "have been in it until the end", because Didi's agent could have told them "We'll think about it". That's why the comment from the beat writer about them "being in it until the end" really doesn't tell us anything.

I don't see what's wrong with saying the Reds thought 1 year at 14 million was not an offer they were comfortable with topping. Heck, not signing Didi might end up to be a great non-move in hindsight.
In other words, it's not necessarily a criticism (at least by me)
I don't see why we have to rationalize that the Reds might have had a higher offer but for some reason Didi took less to go to Philly.. that seems like a huge stretch.

Let's start with this. What do we know about this? Do we know that they offered anything?

[redsof72]

Didi had conversations with the Reds and other teams. When it came time to make a decision, the offer from the Phillies was the best offer. Didi definitely had interest in the Reds, but the Phillies made an offer that no other team was willing to match or top. The Girardi connection...to borrow a comment from someone earlier in this thread, what did you expect him to say? All of this comes from a direct source within the Gregorius camp.

[CaiGuy]

If the Phillies, Brewers and Giants were the finalists in the Didi sweepstakes, then it's pretty obvious the Reds fell by the wayside at some earlier point.

FWIW, I never expected they'd sign Didi, and I'm glad they have that money to spend elsewhere.

Another source claims that the Giants, Brewers and Reds were the runners-up...basically you can't conclude anything from these random reports unless someone actually goes on the record and reports each team's offer...which aint going to happen.

[REDREAD]

Why must people who see logical reasons as to why the guy didn’t sign in Cincinnati be apologists? The Reds are trying extremely hard to sign FA. You win some. You lose some. Sometimes you do all you can but still lose.

Some people (not saying you, I can't remember who said what) feel the need to say that the Reds were possibly turned down by Didi, even though they might have offered Didi more money than Philly. And we see that line of reasoning often here on RZ.. That's the issue I have.. That's highly unlikely. But that statement is met with "Unless you know the exact amount of $$ the Reds offered and personally interview Didi, you can not say that ". That's being a Reds front office apologist.. because how dare someone make a conclusion.. how dare someone question the Reds desire to win at all costs?

I have said a few times, it's ok if the Reds dropped out of the bidding if they think they have a better plan.

I'll drop out of this, unless someone asks me a direct question about it.. Don't want to derail anymore.

[M2]

Another source claims that the Giants, Brewers and Reds were the runners-up...basically you can't conclude anything from these random reports unless someone actually goes on the record and reports each team's offer...which aint going to happen.

That other source is Trent, and it seems like he might have gotten his information from the Reds rather than the Gregorius camp. I'm not sure the Reds get to declare themselves a finalist. It's kind of like insisting that even though they didn't get nominated, they definitely were in the Oscar running. IMO, redsof72's information makes the most sense. The Phillies put the best offer on the table and they got him.

[Sea Ray]

Didi had conversations with the Reds and other teams. When it came time to make a decision, the offer from the Phillies was the best offer. Didi definitely had interest in the Reds, but the Phillies made an offer that no other team was willing to match or top. The Girardi connection...to borrow a comment from someone earlier in this thread, what did you expect him to say? All of this comes from a direct source within the Gregorius camp.

Do we know that the Phillies' offer was the highest? Has that been reported?

[Sea Ray]

Some people (not saying you, I can't remember who said what) feel the need to say that the Reds were possibly turned down by Didi, even though they might have offered Didi more money than Philly. And we see that line of reasoning often here on RZ.. That's the issue I have.. That's highly unlikely. But that statement is met with "Unless you know the exact amount of $$ the Reds offered and personally interview Didi, you can not say that ". That's being a Reds front office apologist.. because how dare someone make a conclusion.. how dare someone question the Reds desire to win at all costs?

I have said a few times, it's ok if the Reds dropped out of the bidding if they think they have a better plan.

I'll drop out of this, unless someone asks me a direct question about it.. Don't want to derail anymore.

I'll be the first to say that I don't follow rumors too much. I don't know what's reported so my questions in this thread are not rhetorical. I'll also say that personally I'd support a one year overpay on a guy like Didi more so than the 4 yr Moust deal...but I'm not ready to fry Dick Williams and Co until I know more. It's possible that Didi's folks told the Reds early on that he preferred other options etc, etc. Finally, I'm not Reds apologist. I rarely praise Dick Williams and that crew of nepotism.

[Sea Ray]

C. Trent:

From what I’ve been told, #Reds were in it with Gregorius to the end, but the comfort level with Joe Girardi helped make the decision

That makes it sound like it wasn't money that decided it for Didi

[Benihana]

Redszone when a signing or trade is proposed on the board: “That could never happen! The other team/player would never do that!”

Redszone when said player signs or is traded to another team for a lesser package: “How do you know the Reds didn’t offer more? You can’t know that and you’re crazy to assume! I bet the Reds probably offered more!”

Sadly this place, like the Reds organization, has deteriorated quite a bit over the last several years. The arguments/hindsight justifications are getting crazier and crazier. Earlier in this thread one poster claimed “there is nothing to suggest the Reds didn’t make a better offer than what he signed for.”

[Tom Servo]

Redszone when a signing or trade is proposed on the board: “That could never happen! The other team/player would never do that!”

Redszone when said player signs or is traded to another team for a lesser package: “How do you know the Reds didn’t offer more? You can’t know that and you’re crazy to assume! I bet the Reds probably offered more!”

Sadly this place, like the Reds organization, has deteriorated quite a bit over the last several years. The arguments/hindsight justifications are getting crazier and crazier. Earlier in this thread one poster claimed “there is nothing to suggest the Reds didn’t make a better offer than what he signed for.”

Not sure what the signing of Didi has to do with you getting mad when people say that your trade proposals are unrealistic in the Reds favor, but okay.

[kaldaniels]

C. Trent:



That makes it sound like it wasn't money that decided it for Didi

It does kinda sound that way. Well, let me clarify...it sounds like that's what C Trent's source (hmmm who could that be) wanted him to think and relay.

[REDREAD]

It does kinda sound that way. Well, let me clarify...it sounds like that's what C Trent's source (hmmm who could that be) wanted him to think and relay.

Exactly! Even prior to this year, often the Reds (or someone) would create a rumor the Reds were going after a player, Reds would not sign the guy, but there almost always seemed to be a positive spin after the Reds didn't get him.

Example: Reds went very hard after Otahni last year, made him a fantastic offer, were "Finalists" ,etc . etc.
Reality: Reds had about a 1% chance of signing Othani.

And the propaganda might not even be coming from the Reds' office. The beat writers might be making up a lot of this stuff.
Let's just say hypothetically that C Trent made up that "Source" on his own.. no one in the Reds Front office is going to call him out on it. Reds benefit and C Trent benefits because he has something interesting to say that day.

[kaldaniels]

Exactly! Even prior to this year, often the Reds (or someone) would create a rumor the Reds were going after a player, Reds would not sign the guy, but there almost always seemed to be a positive spin after the Reds didn't get him.

Example: Reds went very hard after Otahni last year, made him a fantastic offer, were "Finalists" ,etc . etc.
Reality: Reds had about a 1% chance of signing Othani.

And the propaganda might not even be coming from the Reds' office. The beat writers might be making up a lot of this stuff.
Let's just say hypothetically that C Trent made up that "Source" on his own.. no one in the Reds Front office is going to call him out on it. Reds benefit and C Trent benefits because he has something interesting to say that day.

The beat writers and insiders do not have a fiduciary duty (for lack of a better term) to us their readers. Their duty is to themselves. They want sources and they want to be “first”. That means that they will be trumpeters of propaganda at times. Nature of the beast, folks.

[Patrick Bateman]

Earlier in this thread one poster claimed “there is nothing to suggest the Reds didn’t make a better offer than what he signed for.”

To be fair, Beni, that post was in response to a flurry of posts suggesting it was a joke that the Reds didn't match or beat the offer the Phillies made.

It is completely believable to me that the Reds could, in theory, offer slightly more money, and not get the player... or at the very least make a competitive bid for him to go elsewhere for non-monetary reasons.

I do agree that the word "nothing" in the original post would be strong... as I would suggest the fact we didn't get Didi is worth some clue that it is more probable than not that the Reds were not the high bidder.

But there are kneejerk reactions from the other side too, of which you can and have been guilty of in the past. A little bit of room on both sides to move from where I'm sitting.