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View Poll Results: #11 on the Farm?!

Voters
47. You may not vote on this poll
  • 2B Jose Acosta

    2 4.26%
  • RHSP Jose De Leon

    9 19.15%
  • OF T.J. Friedl

    7 14.89%
  • CF Jameson Hannah

    2 4.26%
  • RHRP Ryan Hendrix

    0 0%
  • 3B Rece Hinds

    17 36.17%
  • RHRP Joel Kuhnel

    9 19.15%
  • CF Jose Siri

    1 2.13%
  • Other - Specify in Comments

    0 0%
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Thread: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #11 Prospect???

  1. #16
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #11 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    And you're leaning way too much on a DSL Stat line. There is literally no other information out there on Acosta. At least we can watch video and read professional scouting reports from various sources on Hinds to arrive at a conclusion. The only data point for Acosta is DSL stats that are not predictive of future performance.
    So go vote for a guy with a middle reliever ceiling. I'm taking a shot on a kid with a bat/speed/gap power mix.
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  3. #17
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #11 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Players have, you just keep ignoring them. They all put up a wRC+ in the DSL higher than Acosta. Nunez hit over .400 too with a ridiculous SLG, better K/BB rate, and he bottomed out in 2019 against better competition. Mature bodies can do crazy things in the DSL. That being said, I don't even know if Acosta has a mature body because there is no info on him.

    Malcolm Nunez - 2018
    Vicente Lupo - 2012
    Kelvin Diaz - 2006
    Brian Sanchez - 2016
    Jose Augusto Figueroa - 2012
    Check your numbers, man. Acosta went 400/ 500/ 600 in the DSL. Only Lupo was close to those numbers, and he's certainly not a finished product.

    Which is problematic of your point, I think.

    Even if you're given the extra 25 points of BA and OBP and/ or SLG and/ or OPS, there are only five guys who've come close to Acosta's production in the DSL.

    He might not be a star, but he's obviously got some pop. And some kind of eye at the plate. And some speed. And an idea of what he wants to do with the ball.

    At this point, that's enough to put him on the list, especially when compared with the distance Hinds and others have to travel as well. Or the middle relief adequacy of those in AA. Or the BOR eater of innings in AA.

    We know his upside because we've seen his upside. And it's pretty spectacular.
    Last edited by Bourgeois Zee; 12-27-2019 at 04:45 PM.

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    M2 (12-27-2019)

  5. #18
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #11 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Check your numbers, man. Acosta went 400/ 500/ 600 in the DSL. Only Lupo was close to those numbers, and he's certainly not a finished product.

    Which is problematic of your point, I think.

    Even if you're given the extra 25 points of BA and OBP and/ or SLG and/ or OPS, there are only five guys who've come close to Acosta's production in the DSL.

    He might not be a star, but he's obviously got some pop. And some kind of eye at the plate. And some speed. And an idea of what he wants to do with the ball.

    At this point, that's enough to put him on the list, especially when compared with the distance Hinds and others have to travel as well. Or the middle relief adequacy of those in AA. Or the BOR eater of innings in AA.

    He know his upside because we've seen his upside. And it's pretty spectacular.
    Stats don't always tell the story especially with the age gap. No one here can evaluate him because no one here knows anything about him. Your farm system is in serious trouble if a guy repeating DSL, is a year and a half older than his competition especially at that age is being considered this early with no one knowing a thing about him. This was in under 200 abs against kids.

  6. #19
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #11 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Rdirtypirates View Post
    Stats don't always tell the story especially with the age gap. No one here can evaluate him because no one here knows anything about him. Your farm system is in serious trouble if a guy repeating DSL, is a year and a half older than his competition especially at that age is being considered this early with no one knowing a thing about him. This was in under 200 abs against kids.
    Sure, but for #11 we voted for a kid who's highest level of achievement is HS.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

    Coddle thy pitchers.

  7. #20
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #11 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Sure, but for #11 we voted for a kid who's highest level of achievement is HS.
    Sure, but there is more info and video on them. This guy is pure speculation. He could be a star or we may never hear his name again. I just can't see voting for a guy with so little info to be found on him.

  8. #21
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #11 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Rdirtypirates View Post
    Sure, but there is more info and video on them. This guy is pure speculation. He could be a star or we may never hear his name again. I just can't see voting for a guy with so little info to be found on him.
    What info?

    Scouting reports?

    Against high school guys?

    Acosta played against professionals. And dominated.

    Scouting reports aren't worth the paper they are sometimes printed on, for the most part. I remember when Joey Votto supposedly had a slow bat.

  9. #22
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #11 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    What info?

    Scouting reports?

    Against high school guys?

    Acosta played against professionals. And dominated.

    Scouting reports aren't worth the paper they are sometimes printed on, for the most part. I remember when Joey Votto supposedly had a slow bat.
    I'll trust a professional opinion and video over a stat line. Sure professionals get it wrong all the time, but when evaluating players this young every piece of data is important, and I just don't know enough about him.

  10. #23
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #11 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Rdirtypirates View Post
    I'll trust a professional opinion and video over a stat line. Sure professionals get it wrong all the time, but when evaluating players this young every piece of data is important, and I just don't know enough about him.
    That's just it, though.

    You know more about Acosta-- due to his stat line in a professional league-- than you do about Hinds.

    You just find comfort in the narrative (ie, scouting reports) around Hinds.

    (And if you think the scouting reports you're given come from professionals, you're probably wrong.)

  11. #24
    Member texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #11 Prospect???

    The Reds thought highly enough of Acosta to promote him to stateside before the end of the season. And if anyone should know the level of Jose Acosta's baseball skills, one would think it would be the Reds.

  12. #25
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #11 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    That's just it, though.

    You know more about Acosta-- due to his stat line in a professional league-- than you do about Hinds.

    You just find comfort in the narrative (ie, scouting reports) around Hinds.

    (And if you think the scouting reports you're given come from professionals, you're probably wrong.)
    Calling the DSL a professional league is a stretch. There is a wide variety of talent in the league. I due feel comfortable in the narrative based on actual information from multiple places. I just don't have enough information to make a determination on Acosta. Under 200 abs in a league with kids he was repeating doesn't say much to me. Hopefully over the next year he will continue this, and we will learn more.

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  14. #26
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #11 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Rdirtypirates View Post
    Calling the DSL a professional league is a stretch.
    Xander Bogaerts, Carlos Martinez, Orlando Arcia, Manuel Margot, Jorge Alfaro, Antonio Senzatela, Ronald Torreyes, Jeimer Candelario, Francis Martes, Victor Robles, Estevan Florial, Jesus Sanchez, Franklin Perez, Andres Gimenez and Jorge Mateo all disagree with you.

    (And that's just in 10 years.)

  15. #27
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #11 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Xander Bogaerts, Carlos Martinez, Orlando Arcia, Manuel Margot, Jorge Alfaro, Antonio Senzatela, Ronald Torreyes, Jeimer Candelario, Francis Martes, Victor Robles, Estevan Florial, Jesus Sanchez, Franklin Perez, Andres Gimenez and Jorge Mateo all disagree with you.

    (And that's just in 10 years.)
    All good players, but it doesn't change the fact there are a lot more failures out of this league then successes. IMO it is a tick above high school, that doesn't scream professional league to me.

  16. #28
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #11 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Check your numbers, man. Acosta went 400/ 500/ 600 in the DSL. Only Lupo was close to those numbers, and he's certainly not a finished product.

    Which is problematic of your point, I think.

    Even if you're given the extra 25 points of BA and OBP and/ or SLG and/ or OPS, there are only five guys who've come close to Acosta's production in the DSL.

    He might not be a star, but he's obviously got some pop. And some kind of eye at the plate. And some speed. And an idea of what he wants to do with the ball.

    At this point, that's enough to put him on the list, especially when compared with the distance Hinds and others have to travel as well. Or the middle relief adequacy of those in AA. Or the BOR eater of innings in AA.

    We know his upside because we've seen his upside. And it's pretty spectacular.
    Check your numbers, man.

    Nunez went .415/.497/.774. Lupo flamed out in A-Ball after 2016. What else do you call a finished product?

    Having an eye at the plate isn’t hard when pitchers are all over the place and not usually throwing that hard. His 17% K rate is unimpressive all things considered. Heck, Ibandel Isabel could manage a 22% K rate in the DSL. Acosta hit 3 HR’s, we really don’t know much about his power. His SLG was high via a lot of doubles, which is going to happen with good speed in the DSL. Does that speed project to translate with age? We have no idea. We don’t even know if he is really that fast, or just DSL fast with good base running and taking advantage if weak outfield defense.

    You literally know nothing about his upside because nobody has seen him play. It’s laughable to call it spectacular.

    Put him in the late 20’s. He should be nowhere near Rece Hinds. If he was truly that impressive he would have been moved up a lot quicker. There’s a much higher chance of Kuhnel become a shut down late inning reliever than Acosta becoming an MLB bench player.
    Last edited by Griffey012; 12-28-2019 at 03:16 PM.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  17. #29
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #11 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Xander Bogaerts, Carlos Martinez, Orlando Arcia, Manuel Margot, Jorge Alfaro, Antonio Senzatela, Ronald Torreyes, Jeimer Candelario, Francis Martes, Victor Robles, Estevan Florial, Jesus Sanchez, Franklin Perez, Andres Gimenez and Jorge Mateo all disagree with you.

    (And that's just in 10 years.)
    Take away the guys that were good money international signings and you are left with probably nobody. Even Candelario got 500k.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  18. #30
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    Re: 2019-2020: Who is the Reds #11 Prospect???

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Check your numbers, man.
    My bad. I got Lupo (who was not close to Acosta's BA) and Nunez (who was close but under in OBP) mixed up.

    Nunez is the only one close to Acosta's numbers.

    The rest of them you fudged.

    I get it. I do. It's hard to find someone who goes 400/ 500/ 600 in any league.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Take away the guys that were good money international signings and you are left with probably nobody. Even Candelario got 500k.
    So?


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