Computer Plate Umps Allowed in New Labor Deal

[Bourgeois Zee]

I know.....

... I didn't.

And they got me.

[North]

There are a lot of issues here with software testing and source code control and release schedules and security of these systems in all 30 MLB parks. All stuff that a competent IT staff should be able to handle. But that all has to be executed with great discipline and diligence.

I’m glad they are doing this over multiple years to work through all the details. There are a lot to work out. It’s always the things you don’t know that you don’t know that get you.

All it takes is one employee in the know with an itchy palm.

[bifteckboy]

It’ll be interesting to see if anything will come out of the investigation of the Astros sign-stealing. The talk about buzzers in their cleats really intrigued me because what happens if MLB realizes they only got that idea from the umpires who have quite possibly been using the same buzzers for calling balls & strikes according to Stat Cast’s strike zone..

[texasdave]

From mlbtraderumors.com:

It’s time to cede the battle against robot umpires, per The Athletic’s Jayson Stark. “This. Is. Happening,” writes Stark, and perhaps as early as 2022. The mental games used to inch the strike zone this way or that has long been a tool of the game’s best – from the hitters whose impeccable eye define it, to the pitchers’ whose pinpoint control push to expand it – but an automated zone will all but abolish the in-game politicking of the strike zone, giving hitters a new advantage they have long been without: certainty. Robot umpires will define the strike zone with better precision than their carbon-based forerunners – but first the humans must decide what they want that strike zone to be. For those particularly fond of strike zone drama, appreciate it now, because deciding on the parameters of the automated zone might be one of the last great strike zone debates before the robots take over.

[RED VAN HOT]

From mlbtraderumors.com:

I agree, except for the part about umpires being a carbon-based life form.

[westofyou]

There are a lot of issues here with software testing and source code control and release schedules and security of these systems in all 30 MLB parks. All stuff that a competent IT staff should be able to handle. But that all has to be executed with great discipline and diligence.

I’m glad they are doing this over multiple years to work through all the details. There are a lot to work out. It’s always the things you don’t know that you don’t know that get you.

Yep, system control as well as support is only something that folks in the business will worry about...until it becomes a mess one day and then every guy with a phone will ponder why it was not perfect.

This is big deal for the game, as someone who works in in the business I see it as a big deal beyond the game, this is groundbreaking system management which will not be as easy as 1, 2, 3

[westofyou]

It’ll be interesting to see if anything will come out of the investigation of the Astros sign-stealing. The talk about buzzers in their cleats really intrigued me because what happens if MLB realizes they only got that idea from the umpires who have quite possibly been using the same buzzers for calling balls & strikes according to Stat Cast’s strike zone..

Buzzers eh?

So 1900

https://calltothepen.com/2016/09/17/...ot-discovered/

[Bob Sheed]

1. Just put cameras down the 1st and 3rd base line, hooked up to a big FAIR/FOUL digital sign. Then no need for those umpires.
2. Then you have the computer call ball and strikes, hooked up to a big BALL/STRIKE digital sign. No need for the home plate umpire.
3. Put 3 or 4 cameras at different angles on each base, hooked up to a big SAFE/OUT digital sign. No need for those umpires anymore either.

Everything will be exactly right, every time. No reason ever to argue, no one to argue with even if they wanted to.

No more bad calls. No more floating strike zones. No more "was it fair or foul?" No more drama stemming from it. Everything will be fair and precise, every time. Just good ole efficient, perfect, baseball.

Won't that be fun?

[mth123]

1. Just put cameras down the 1st and 3rd base line, hooked up to a big FAIR/FOUL digital sign. Then no need for those umpires.
2. Then you have the computer call ball and strikes, hooked up to a big BALL/STRIKE digital sign. No need for the home plate umpire.
3. Put 3 or 4 cameras at different angles on each base, hooked up to a big SAFE/OUT digital sign. No need for those umpires anymore either.

Everything will be exactly right, every time. No reason ever to argue, no one to argue with even if they wanted to.

No more bad calls. No more floating strike zones. No more "was it fair or foul?" No more drama stemming from it. Everything will be fair and precise, every time. Just good ole efficient, perfect, baseball.

Won't that be fun?

I think it would be marvelous.

[Brisco]

Feels like I've posted something similar 100 times.

They will either have to:

1. change the current definition of the top and bottom of the strike zone
2. or still rely on the human element; in the form of some tech guy instead of an ump

Couldn’t they simply put a sensor or unique colored mark on the outside of the uniform to determine chest and knee location? The top and bottom of the strike zone would be determined electronically the second they get in their stance. I get that players would try to game this, but my guess is that rules could be made to prevent or contain this.

Heck... they have videos of every ab of a player... they could just determine a per player fixed strike zone by averaging the chest and knee location at the start of a swing over hundreds of at bats.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Won't that be fun?

Or put another way:

Every call will be correct, and no longer will players and fans have to worry about being better, but because of human error, that not being enough.

[Brisco]

Mike I agree with you pretty regularly but I cannot get on board with that. Seeing game outcomes affected and players literally removed from the game by petulant umpires who think they’re the reason people buy tickets was never part of baseball’s charm, at least not to me.


I mean, imagine being a math teacher.

You’re teaching children basic arithmetic and at the very moment you tell a child “3 plus 3 equals 6”, the head of the school board walks by and says “umm, no - three plus three equals seven”.

You respond “with all due respect, no, it equals six.”


Head of the school board then has you removed from the classroom and recommends that you be docked pay.


In front of the school board, you point out that the technology exists to prove that you were correct and numerous parents in the school district object. They state that teachers being removed from the classroom and children underperforming on their standardized testing has always been one of their cherished parts of the education system. They enjoy the ensuing controversy and did not want to see calculators brought into their school system. They like seeing teachers lose pay and have to argue their case against the board.


I really don’t think there’s much of a difference.

Ummmm no. One is an activity whose entire value is entertainment... the other is about real world education. What is or is not entertaining is inherently subjective. There is no “right” answer.

[Brisco]

I don't have an issue either way. Just stating that I don't believe computers and cameras can distinguish "the area over home plate from the midpoint between a batter's shoulders and the top of the uniform pants -- when the batter is in his stance and prepared to swing at a pitched ball" without help from humans.

The current strike zone is unique for every single player. The current strike zone can vary pitch to pitch for the same player during the same at bat.

Because of the bolded above, the top part of the zone can't be established until the ball is nearing the plate.

I'm not opposed to changing the definition. Just asking how you do it without switching the human element away from an umpire and to a tech guy.

I get that the rule needs to be tweaked. But we have hundreds or thousands of at bats that a computer can look at to compare the stances at the start of a swing. In fact, we have the current technology to allow this zone to be updated by adding each stance to the database average after each pitch and before the next one (if the batter actually swung). Yes, this does eliminate the current possibility that the batter can significantly switch stances to get a significantly new strike zone from one pitch to the next.... I am not sure how much of a sacrifice this actually is.

Bottom line - yes the definition would need to be reworded, but the human element could be reduced to the point of insignificance. BTW.... nothing prevents us from using umpires rather than lab techs to identify the correct video frame for when a player is in his stance. They just do it between games.

If they go this route... ( am I am not saying I support it going to electronic calls) I think a fixed zone based on the height of the batter would not change the game as much as others might.

[Norm Chortleton]

Couldn’t they simply put a sensor or unique colored mark on the outside of the uniform to determine chest and knee location? The top and bottom of the strike zone would be determined electronically the second they get in their stance. I get that players would try to game this, but my guess is that rules could be made to prevent or contain this.

Heck... they have videos of every ab of a player... they could just determine a per player fixed strike zone by averaging the chest and knee location at the start of a swing over hundreds of at bats.

That's an idea had. But then I thought it would take about 5 minutes for Houston to defeat it somehow.

[Old school 1983]

From mlbtraderumors.com:

The point made about giving the hitter certainty is what troubles me about it. If I were a hitter I’d be installing the strike zone program in every practice facility I use and be memorizing tirelessly. Yes pitch recognition will still matter, but the precise certainty will give a distinct advantage to hitters never before seen in the sport. I will think there will have to be a post auto strike zone record book. Perfection isn’t always better. Nuisance and margin for error are good things in some situations. I think this is one of them. Imperfection is part of the the beauty of the game. Take for example the reviewed calls where a guy pops off the bag a millimeter after beating the throw and beating the tag? Is it perfect yes...is it better no. There’s the letter of a rule and the spirt and intention of the the rule. Sometimes the spirit and intention need to prevail over the exact word. IMO the spirit of the strike one rule makes has a slightly subjective component