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Thread: In your opinion...

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    In your opinion...

    Based on whatever percentage of the off-season is complete for the 30 organizational baseball Clubs, how would you grade the REDS' accomplishments (not effort) based on your opinion what could have possibly been done.

    I don't have an answer because I have a very, very low knowledge of what opportunities were out there. It's why I'm asking others here where there's a good base of knowledge.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Member corkedbat's Avatar
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    Re: In your opinion...

    I could give them a solid "B" for Moose, Shogo & Miley, but I think I'll make it an "I" for "Incomplete" because I truly believe they're definitely wanting to do more. I believe their intention is a quality SS (if the price is within reason) and another OF FA. If it doesn't make sense, I think they'll still look to upgrade SS, catcher &/or bullpen in a less sensational manner.
    Last edited by corkedbat; 01-04-2020 at 06:50 PM.

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    Kingspoint (01-04-2020)

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    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: In your opinion...

    I give the a B as well. They have done a lot. I just think they were a lot farther away to begin with than most do. I still think they need another bat and two proven bullpen arms who are on the upswing. They've essentially replaced Scooter with Moustakas, they upgraded the back end of the rotation and they added to the OF Mix with Shogo. He should help, but he's not a "fix" for the uncertainty that still exists throughout two -thirds of the line-up. The team still is dependent on a strong comeback from Votto, some above average production from Aquino and Senzel becoming the player we all hoped he would last year at this time. I don't like depending on so may things going right.

    Jose Deleon may end up being the best acquisition they made this winter.
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    Kingspoint (01-04-2020)

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    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: In your opinion...

    It's an incomplete from me, but here's what I'm pleased with during Williams' tenure as Big Head Boss:

    - The systemic targeting of weak spots and the attempt to fill them, often with outside the box means
    Last off-season, Williams "got the pitching" in a variety of ways-- big contract trades, prospects, and even a blockbuster deal. (Which didn't really work out.) He gambled on an out of position infielder in a new position. He moved failed starters to the 'pen. All ended up with good results, if not great.

    This year, he targeted a former 3B as his 2B, taking advantage of the new defensive spectrum and taking advantage of this particular free agent's skill set. More importantly, he targeted the weakest link on the team once again-- this time 2B-- and made it a strength.

    This isn't a couple of isolated cases either. Williams mentioned catcher as a weakness. He's chased after the two best catchers in the game over that time. He wasn't successful, but it showed an understanding of where he thinks his efforts should reside. Too often in the past, Red GMs (and their requisite off-seasons) were about maturation and prospect divining until the last two weeks before Opening Day, when they'd attempt to add depth pieces only. Or, worse, they'd trumpet a John VanderWahl or Skip Schumacker as the big ticket free agent catch of the off-season.

    I don't miss those days.

    - The willingness to spend money on good players
    Moustakas was expensive. They paid him anyway. In the past, they'd have balked at the uncertainty of Akiyama's Japan League numbers and watched another team sign him. They'd have relied on internal possibilities rather than sign a Miley or a Roark or a Gray (or even Wood, who didn't work out at all). It looks like they're still on corner OF and perhaps relievers. Good. About time.

    - The analytic bent of both coaches and players
    The willingness to put Senzel in CF was big. So too Moustakas at 2B. (Questioning that defensive spectrum in the age of extreme positioning shifts makes me giddy.) But the acquisition of Boddy and Johnson may prove even more important. The focus on taking good ABs and the willingness to be patient strikes me as the most vital component of continuing success in today's game. They're willing to put their money and effort where Williams' mouth is.

    - Their first foray into Japan
    Akiyama may not be Ichiro. (No one's Ichiro.) But he's probably going to be at least a helpful piece. And he's looking like a relative bargain who has real upside as either a fourth OF or as a starter. I love rooting for him. More than that, I no longer feel like the Reds are an international afterthought. As with most of the list so far, this is both a "Yay!" and a "What took you so long?!" reaction.

    - The understanding of the importance of depth and the effectiveness of platoons
    I adore platoons. They're a cheap way to add value to lineups and keep everyone fresh. They keep salaries down by limiting counting numbers which, in turn, allows for a stronger team. That virtuous cycle (unless you're a player) is seen in LA, where nearly every hitter is put in position to exceed career numbers and stay healthy. It was seen across baseball history too, in the teams of Casey Stengel, Branch Rickey, and Earl Weaver. That the Reds have a LF platoon (currently) is fun. Even if it drives some posters nuts.

    - Patience... and action
    In year's past, Raisel Iglesias would have been released in the middle of a historically unlucky season, only to catch on with a playoff team and dominate in the off-season, then come back and pitch to a 1.50 ERA. Jared Hughes and David Hernandez would have stuck with the team the entire season, and Aristides Aquino wouldn't have been given a shot. Robert Stephenson would have been dumped after his poor starting attempts, and Tyler Mahle would have been dealt after complaining about his usage patterns under David Bell.

    Williams seems to have a feel for patience.

    But he's also not afraid to act.

    I fully expect him to be extremely active in signing veteran relief arms to relatively low AAV contracts as camp begins. I'm also betting he gambles on a Derek Dietrich or Scooter Gennett as 40-man rosters get pared down. (He's already taken advantage of Tampa's glut of talent by poaching Jose De Leon, who may be a sneaky great target.)

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    Member NebraskaRed's Avatar
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    Re: In your opinion...

    I guess I'd also give them an Incomplete. As of right now, there's a big gulf between what they said they wanted to do and what they've actually done.

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    Kingspoint (01-04-2020)

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    Re: In your opinion...

    I will give them a B- as of today. Initially I was thinking lower because I feel like we were led to believe there would be a larger splash and increase in payroll for the upcoming year. At the same time, it appears they were offering 100K+ contract to Wheeler and have remained in the bidding for Ozuna who is likely in that same range. It also appears like they were willing to pay Grandal and a couple others, and they simply chose a different organization. Also, they have pivoted into moves that improve the team but have not been reckless. One thing that I would have likely did differently is overpay Grandal with an offer he simply had to accept.

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    Kingspoint (01-04-2020)

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    Member RedsBrick's Avatar
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    Re: In your opinion...

    I, too, will give them a B-, so far.

    Their issue is not in what they've done to this point, their issue is in stating their intentions to significantly increase payroll and then missing out on a couple of key FAs with whom they were reportedly in the mix. Over-promising and under-delivering, if you will.

    That said, I do think they've addressed needs and improved the club and there's still time to fulfill those promises.

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    Kingspoint (01-04-2020)

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    Re: In your opinion...

    "The systemic targeting of weak spots and the attempt to fill them, often with outside the box means."

    That's a good point, BZ. Afterall, isn't that the most one can expect?
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  16. #9
    You have my stapler. Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: In your opinion...

    I give them a C+. I'm hoping it's an I for Incomplete. They won 75 games last year and they haven't added nearly enough WAR to challenge for a playoff spot.

    Counting on Votto to do anything but continue to regress is fools gold. He's on the wrong side of 35 and has a bad back. I actually expect him to be replaced at some point this season, if not because of injury, then because of the above. Votto is my favorite Red of all time, so I take no pleasure in saying this. But, as they say, I see better than I hear. I hope I'm wrong.

    Tucker as a starting catcher is not gonna get it done.

    Moustakas has played what, 47 games at 2B? I expect quite a few errors. (Although, to be fair, he only had 1 error last season in those 47 games, so maybe not.)

    Senzel in CF... Again, placing your most injury prone player at the most injury prone position (besides catcher) is not wise. Amusingly enough, they actually transitioned him there! Time on the DL should be expected for Senzel.

    Pitching will have to carry them, and it should. With one very notable exception. If RI goes out there and starts blowing saves via the long ball again, then Bell better have a quick Plan B, otherwise they'll be out of it by May again and apathy will set in. This offense still looks pretty anemic, so they're going to need to win a lot of one run games.

    Bottom line is, if they want to play better than .500 ball, they need to do more. A lot more. They need a real CF that can hit and stay healthy. They need a catcher that can hit. They need a closer that can close. They need a 1B that doesn't take 2 months to get "warmed up." 2B-SS-CF should be a defensive strength. Right now, it's the opposite. Not sure what is to be done about that, other than compensating for it in other areas. Pitching, they have done. Batting, not so much.
    Last edited by Bob Sheed; 01-04-2020 at 02:59 PM.
    “Stop quoting laws to us. We carry swords." -Pompey

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    Re: In your opinion...

    Bob, Bill James will show you that regulars (10+ seasons) will always have one bounce-back season that mirrors their last season when their decline began before they fall off the cliff th3 next season. This should be Votto's one bounce-back season where he hits around an .850 OPS before falling to around .700 the next couple seasons.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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  19. #11
    You have my stapler. Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: In your opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Bob, Bill James will show you that regulars (10+ seasons) will always have one bounce-back season that mirrors their last season when their decline began before they fall off the cliff th3 next season. This should be Votto's one bounce-back season where he hits around an .850 OPS before falling to around .700 the next couple seasons.
    Votto has been awesome in every season except last season and 2014.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...ottojo01.shtml

    I hope Bill James is right.
    “Stop quoting laws to us. We carry swords." -Pompey

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    Old school 1983 (01-05-2020)

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    Re: In your opinion...

    From where they were just a few seasons ago they're doing great. The one thing holding them back is Votto's contract, but it is what it is. Ideally he's going to rake all season, but i don't hold my breath on it happening. They possibly could have done more, but they're a small market with a limited budget. This is a win now team with very little wiggle room to get it right or wrong. Even big market teams have to rely on even the most expensive players playing up to their expectations and if they don't they too sink. If there's one thing every season has in common it's I always hope enough players have great seasons to overcome any weaknesses. They've done it before. Will they again? We shall see.

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    North (01-05-2020)

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    Bullpen or whatever RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: In your opinion...

    As someone who hands out "real" grades with regularity, I have to go with Incomplete. I still think a signature move is lurking, so I will wait accordingly.
    "I’ll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. That’s just how I do things.” -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Re: In your opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    .

    Bottom line is, if they want to play better than .500 ball, they need to do more. A lot more.
    They are likely already a slightly better than .500 team right now.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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    Member adkindo's Avatar
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    Re: In your opinion...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    As someone who hands out "real" grades with regularity, I have to go with Incomplete. I still think a signature move is lurking, so I will wait accordingly.
    are you a Dancing with the Stars judge?


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