Luhnow and Hinch suspended for a year; subsequently fired

[savafan]

Why? The Indians lost to the Astros in the playoffs a couple years ago. Clevinger doesn't have to hit against them and he can throw mid 90s.

Perhaps he’s referencing the Twitter allegations that Clevinger cheated on the mother of his kids?


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[BCubb2003]

Not for me it doesn't. Even if they hadn't thrown the series, there was no guarantee Chicago would've won. It's not like an underdog hasn't won before.

You’ve summed up the asterisk very well.

It seems to me there are three ways baseball can look at this:

1. Crack down hard, be vigilant, because it’s cheating and wrong. Not fun, but honorable.

2. Everybody does it, just don’t get caught. Practical, but demoralizing, especially for whoever’s responsible for catching and penalizing someone for what everyone else is doing.

3. Embrace it and absorb it into the tech advances of the game. Practical-minded too, but does it turn the precise, balanced game of baseball into a sign-stealing contest?

By the way, Jim Day’s latest podcast is with Joe Oliver, who mentions Norm Charlton’s “spit-finger” pitch. Has anyone heard that before?

[Bob Sheed]

You’ve summed up the asterisk very well.

It seems to me there are three ways baseball can look at this:

1. Crack down hard, be vigilant, because it’s cheating and wrong. Not fun, but honorable.

2. Everybody does it, just don’t get caught. Practical, but demoralizing, especially for whoever’s responsible for catching and penalizing someone for what everyone else is doing.

3. Embrace it and absorb it into the tech advances of the game. Practical-minded too, but does it turn the precise, balanced game of baseball into a sign-stealing contest?

You forgot:
4. Hand out a rinky-dink fine, and suspend a few scapegoats AKA "do nothing, sweep it under the rug, and hope everyone forgets about it."

Sidenote: What if the fine for speeding was 25 cents and they confiscate the deodorizer on your rear-view mirror? That would surely stop people in their tracks, I bet.

By the way, Jim Day’s latest podcast is with Joe Oliver, who mentions Norm Charlton’s “spit-finger” pitch. Has anyone heard that before?

This guy?

[Old school 1983]

The Reds are flying a flag because the other teams effort wasn't pure, sure it doesn't have anything to do with them per se but the title is tainted by the opponent and that in fact makes the whole event questionable

There’s a difference between being the cheater and benefiting and not doing anything wrong and someone throwing the game. Cheaters shouldn’t be able to fly the flags, celebrate it and try to profit off of it in the future. The Reds in 1919 didn’t cheat. Let the team fly the flag. The 1919 Reds were arguably the better team, and arguably the best team in franchise history.

[westofyou]

There’s a difference between being the cheater and benefiting and not doing anything wrong and someone throwing the game. Cheaters shouldn’t be able to fly the flags, celebrate it and try to profit off of it in the future. The Reds in 1919 didn’t cheat. Let the team fly the flag. The 1919 Reds were arguably the better team, and arguably the best team in franchise history.

Well yeah there is a difference, as for best team in franchise history I'd say not at all

[The Operator]

Well yeah there is a difference, as for best team in franchise history I'd say not at all

Somewhere, Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan, Pete Rose and Tony Perez are forming a posse to converge on Old school 1983’s house and discuss the matter.

George Foster is already there providing intel.

[westofyou]

Somewhere, Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan, Pete Rose and Tony Perez are forming a posse to converge on Old school 1983’s house and discuss the matter.

George Foster is already there providing intel.

I'd place the 1962 team above 1919 and they didn't even come in 1st.

One thing that gets lost in the shuffle of 1919 is it was short season, post WW1 with many teams in a state of flux as players returned from the service and factories. The Reds couldn't even find their manager as the season approached. Their outfield was weak outside of Roush. The pitching was strong as most of them threw the spitter/shine/cut balls but wasn't a sustainable approach. As for being sanctimonious about the Reds not cheating the shadow of Hal Chases membership on the team still cast a pall on some of the Reds who were on the 1919 team. The game was pretty crooked then, the Cubs were accused of tossing the 1918 series, players were committed to themselves over the team in most cases and gamblers were interacting with players in every town.

Edd and Heine were stars, the rest of the team had good/peak seasons and the Cream of the league (the Giants) were teeing up for their next run of domination. Perfect storm for an outlier, just like the 1944 Browns or 1959 White Sox, except the Reds won the series

[BCubb2003]

You forgot:
4. Hand out a rinky-dink fine, and suspend a few scapegoats AKA "do nothing, sweep it under the rug, and hope everyone forgets about it."

Sidenote: What if the fine for speeding was 25 cents and they confiscate the deodorizer on your rear-view mirror? That would surely stop people in their tracks, I bet.






This guy?

No. 4 sounds a lot like No. 2, but I’ll accept it.

What if you had to drive around town in your nice car, with “JERK” painted on it?

[Todd Gack]

Why? The Indians lost to the Astros in the playoffs a couple years ago. Clevinger doesn't have to hit against them and he can throw mid 90s.

Clevinger was banging a side piece (allegedly) before and after his wife’s most recent pregnancy last year. Granted, cheating on your wife and this MLB drama are two very different things. But it’s rather tone def to publicly say “Astros should feel ashamed for cheating” and talking about “looking us players who weren’t cheating in the eyes.”

Sometimes the messenger counts and there’s plenty of other guys who weren’t banging someone else (allegedly) during their wife’s pregnancy. It’s one thing to cheat on your wife before kids. It’s another level of being a loser in life when she’s carrying your child and continuing to do it (allegedly) after she gave birth.

[GAC]

I'd place the 1962 team above 1919 and they didn't even come in 1st.

One thing that gets lost in the shuffle of 1919 is it was short season, post WW1 with many teams in a state of flux as players returned from the service and factories. The Reds couldn't even find their manager as the season approached. Their outfield was weak outside of Roush. The pitching was strong as most of them threw the spitter/shine/cut balls but wasn't a sustainable approach. As for being sanctimonious about the Reds not cheating the shadow of Hal Chases membership on the team still cast a pall on some of the Reds who were on the 1919 team. The game was pretty crooked then, the Cubs were accused of tossing the 1918 series, players were committed to themselves over the team in most cases and gamblers were interacting with players in every town.

Edd and Heine were stars, the rest of the team had good/peak seasons and the Cream of the league (the Giants) were teeing up for their next run of domination. Perfect storm for an outlier, just like the 1944 Browns or 1959 White Sox, except the Reds won the series

Good post.

The "environment" then was perfect for scandals because of owners like Comiskey and others who saw players as property, nothing more. They're partially to blame IMO. They didn't want to pay them, and screwed them over whenever they could. It was an open invitation for gamblers (criminal element) to exert their influence by "siding" with those under-appreciated players and striking back at ownership (while lining your pockets).

And Comiskey, with the baseball establishment, also tried to bury the 1919 scandal. At the time they were wondering "How widespread is this? And would baseball become a discredited sport if this isn't nipped in the bud, do some damage control, and efforts made to satisfy public scrutiny?"

[Old school 1983]

Somewhere, Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan, Pete Rose and Tony Perez are forming a posse to converge on Old school 1983’s house and discuss the matter.

George Foster is already there providing intel.

Let them converge. I said arguably...meaning a valid argument could be made. If I was asked what team I thought was the best, I’d say 1976 or 1970.

[WrongVerb]

Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal

Eduardo Perez interviewing for #Astros’ managerial vacancy tomorrow, sources tell The Athletic. First to note Houston’s interest: @martinonyc.
12:23pm · 20 Jan 2020

[savafan]

https://weei.radio.com/blogs/rob-bra...eived-immunity

Wondering why no players received punishments for the Astros' sign-stealing scandal? We now may have the answer.

While Major League Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred's explanation was that it would be "difficult and impractical" to punish players, according to a report in the Wall Street Journal the real reason was something much more formal and secretive. The WSJ reports that Manfred struck a deal with the Major League Baseball Players Association prior to its investigation stating that the players would have immunity in exchange for their testimony.

[REDREAD]

. Your proposing turning the Astros into another Marlins. No reason to go to the park or watch on TV. The Marlins are a huge problem for MLB. Why impose a punishment that creates another one?

But arguably, the Astros were the worst franchise in baseball over a 6 year period, and yet the sport survived. The sport would still survive. Tickets not sold in Houston would be sold somewhere else as another team rises in the Astro's place.

IMO, short of the death penalty, the effect on the product is negligible, other than Houston, which will bounce back. They bounced back from a 0.0 Neilson ratings.

[Ron Madden]

So far four people have lost their jobs as a result of these investigations. That should serve as a deterrent going forward.