My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!
You’ve summed up the asterisk very well.
It seems to me there are three ways baseball can look at this:
1. Crack down hard, be vigilant, because it’s cheating and wrong. Not fun, but honorable.
2. Everybody does it, just don’t get caught. Practical, but demoralizing, especially for whoever’s responsible for catching and penalizing someone for what everyone else is doing.
3. Embrace it and absorb it into the tech advances of the game. Practical-minded too, but does it turn the precise, balanced game of baseball into a sign-stealing contest?
By the way, Jim Day’s latest podcast is with Joe Oliver, who mentions Norm Charlton’s “spit-finger” pitch. Has anyone heard that before?
You forgot:
4. Hand out a rinky-dink fine, and suspend a few scapegoats AKA "do nothing, sweep it under the rug, and hope everyone forgets about it."
Sidenote: What if the fine for speeding was 25 cents and they confiscate the deodorizer on your rear-view mirror? That would surely stop people in their tracks, I bet.
This guy?By the way, Jim Day’s latest podcast is with Joe Oliver, who mentions Norm Charlton’s “spit-finger” pitch. Has anyone heard that before?
"Lemonade requires a significant amount of sugar. Otherwise, you've just made lemon juice."
Red Buckeye (01-20-2020)
There’s a difference between being the cheater and benefiting and not doing anything wrong and someone throwing the game. Cheaters shouldn’t be able to fly the flags, celebrate it and try to profit off of it in the future. The Reds in 1919 didn’t cheat. Let the team fly the flag. The 1919 Reds were arguably the better team, and arguably the best team in franchise history.
Red Buckeye (01-20-2020)
goldglover9 (01-19-2020),Tuff Nut (01-23-2020),westofyou (01-19-2020)
I'd place the 1962 team above 1919 and they didn't even come in 1st.
One thing that gets lost in the shuffle of 1919 is it was short season, post WW1 with many teams in a state of flux as players returned from the service and factories. The Reds couldn't even find their manager as the season approached. Their outfield was weak outside of Roush. The pitching was strong as most of them threw the spitter/shine/cut balls but wasn't a sustainable approach. As for being sanctimonious about the Reds not cheating the shadow of Hal Chases membership on the team still cast a pall on some of the Reds who were on the 1919 team. The game was pretty crooked then, the Cubs were accused of tossing the 1918 series, players were committed to themselves over the team in most cases and gamblers were interacting with players in every town.
Edd and Heine were stars, the rest of the team had good/peak seasons and the Cream of the league (the Giants) were teeing up for their next run of domination. Perfect storm for an outlier, just like the 1944 Browns or 1959 White Sox, except the Reds won the series
GAC (01-20-2020),The Operator (01-20-2020)
Bob Sheed (01-19-2020)
Clevinger was banging a side piece (allegedly) before and after his wife’s most recent pregnancy last year. Granted, cheating on your wife and this MLB drama are two very different things. But it’s rather tone def to publicly say “Astros should feel ashamed for cheating” and talking about “looking us players who weren’t cheating in the eyes.”
Sometimes the messenger counts and there’s plenty of other guys who weren’t banging someone else (allegedly) during their wife’s pregnancy. It’s one thing to cheat on your wife before kids. It’s another level of being a loser in life when she’s carrying your child and continuing to do it (allegedly) after she gave birth.
Last edited by Todd Gack; 01-19-2020 at 11:20 PM.
Good post.
The "environment" then was perfect for scandals because of owners like Comiskey and others who saw players as property, nothing more. They're partially to blame IMO. They didn't want to pay them, and screwed them over whenever they could. It was an open invitation for gamblers (criminal element) to exert their influence by "siding" with those under-appreciated players and striking back at ownership (while lining your pockets).
And Comiskey, with the baseball establishment, also tried to bury the 1919 scandal. At the time they were wondering "How widespread is this? And would baseball become a discredited sport if this isn't nipped in the bud, do some damage control, and efforts made to satisfy public scrutiny?"
"In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)
Revering4Blue (01-22-2020),The Operator (01-20-2020)
Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
Eduardo Perez interviewing for #Astros’ managerial vacancy tomorrow, sources tell The Athletic. First to note Houston’s interest: @martinonyc.
12:23pm · 20 Jan 2020
Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. -- Carl Sagan (Pale Blue Dot)
https://weei.radio.com/blogs/rob-bra...eived-immunity
Wondering why no players received punishments for the Astros' sign-stealing scandal? We now may have the answer.
While Major League Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred's explanation was that it would be "difficult and impractical" to punish players, according to a report in the Wall Street Journal the real reason was something much more formal and secretive. The WSJ reports that Manfred struck a deal with the Major League Baseball Players Association prior to its investigation stating that the players would have immunity in exchange for their testimony.
My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!
But arguably, the Astros were the worst franchise in baseball over a 6 year period, and yet the sport survived. The sport would still survive. Tickets not sold in Houston would be sold somewhere else as another team rises in the Astro's place.
IMO, short of the death penalty, the effect on the product is negligible, other than Houston, which will bounce back. They bounced back from a 0.0 Neilson ratings.
[Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob
Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!
So far four people have lost their jobs as a result of these investigations. That should serve as a deterrent going forward.
Revering4Blue (01-22-2020)
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