Dick Williams

[REDREAD]

Well Bob Quinn won the world series and Jack McKeon was never the GM so I don't know how they the the list.

Yea, my mistake, you are right, Trader Jack was not a GM here.
As far as Bob Quinn goes, the board wasn't around then, but like all GMs, to most fans, he was a hero when he arrived and scorned when he left.

[REDREAD]

It wasn't until 12/27/2016 when Jocketty stepped down from the day to day operations that Dick Williams really took over. He may have had GM in title, but Jocketty ran the show as President of Baseball Operations.

I really don't want to debate who was in charge during that approximately one year when both Walt and Williams were here. Whoever was in charge was pressured to
dump Chapman at a discount, so I don't hold that against, them. I said that in the post.. While I have no proof, I am guessing there was pressure to dump Frasier ASAP too to save money.. At the same time, I acknowledge most of the trades for vets (Frasier, Chapman, Cueto, etc) were disasters and the entire front office and ownership should be ashamed.

Still, I have yet to see any evidence that the Williams regime can build a winning team. They haven't yet. They might have it this year, but that's due to signing free agents. Not that I am complaining, I plan on enjoying the season, but other regimes were criticizing for doing the same thing.. "Not a sustainable way to build a winner". I remember the meltdown when the Reds picked up Broxton for example. So in summary, Williams/Krall built a team for 2020
that looks good on paper (and hopefully good on the field) without really any player development. It was largely cash and 2 amazing trades for 2 great pitchers. I think it's great, but we have to be consistent .. if 2020 team is good, Walt's teams were good too.

[bucksfan2]

In Michael Lewis latest podcast season, Episode 5 talks about Kyle Boddy and Driveline. Its interesting to say the least, Lewis is a fantastic story teller, but I think it highlights an area where Williams and crew have focused since they gained control.

While I don't think Driveline is proprietary to the Reds, Boddy should be able to target pitchers and use his technologies to make the Reds pitching staff better, more effective, and probably cheaper.

[boxseat]

While I don't think Driveline is proprietary to the Reds, Boddy should be able to target pitchers and use his technologies to make the Reds pitching staff better, more effective, and probably cheaper.

Pitching is usually their weakness. While what you state is the ideal, the word "cheaper" with "better/effective" might not be reality. I think he should spend more on pitching.

[Edd Roush]

In Michael Lewis latest podcast season, Episode 5 talks about Kyle Boddy and Driveline. Its interesting to say the least, Lewis is a fantastic story teller, but I think it highlights an area where Williams and crew have focused since they gained control.

While I don't think Driveline is proprietary to the Reds, Boddy should be able to target pitchers and use his technologies to make the Reds pitching staff better, more effective, and probably cheaper.

A stream of at least average starting pitchers coming from the minor leagues would be huge to a small market team like the Reds. Homer Bailey deals would no longer hold appeal to the FO and only the truly elite SPs could then be pursued as extension candidates.

[Griffey012]

I really don't want to debate who was in charge during that approximately one year when both Walt and Williams were here. Whoever was in charge was pressured to
dump Chapman at a discount, so I don't hold that against, them. I said that in the post.. While I have no proof, I am guessing there was pressure to dump Frasier ASAP too to save money.. At the same time, I acknowledge most of the trades for vets (Frasier, Chapman, Cueto, etc) were disasters and the entire front office and ownership should be ashamed.

Still, I have yet to see any evidence that the Williams regime can build a winning team. They haven't yet. They might have it this year, but that's due to signing free agents. Not that I am complaining, I plan on enjoying the season, but other regimes were criticizing for doing the same thing.. "Not a sustainable way to build a winner". I remember the meltdown when the Reds picked up Broxton for example. So in summary, Williams/Krall built a team for 2020
that looks good on paper (and hopefully good on the field) without really any player development. It was largely cash and 2 amazing trades for 2 great pitchers. I think it's great, but we have to be consistent .. if 2020 team is good, Walt's teams were good too.

Nick Senzel was drafted in 2016. Which we might be able to agree upon was the first draft by DW and company. Senzel has the 4th highest bWAR (tied with Lux) out of the 2016 first round, behind Eric Lauer, Dakota Hudson, and Will Smith. I think we would all take Senzel over the latter group, Lux would probably win at this point but we know LAD had a much better player development system in place so it would be a fair debate. I suppose we could have went Keston Hiura in 2017 if we wanted more immediate returns, but Greene still has immense upside. They haven't missed on a generational talent, and didn't whiff on any first rounders. If trades and free agent spending is discredited, then you have to score them as a TBD because you don't rebuild a team through the draft that quickly.

You say we have to be consistent. That is the whole point of the analytics and player development focus that Williams and Krall are installing. Derek Johnson and Kyle Boddy are a huge upgrade in that area. Zinter remains a big TBD as well, but so far he has said all the right things.

For comparison sake the Washington Nationals struck absolute draft gold with Strasburg and Harper in back to back seasons (09 and 10) and didn't make the playoffs until 2012, which was equivalent to the Reds 2019 season and Senzel being the first draft pick of the rebuild. The Astros drafted Carlos Correa in 2012, the first high pick of their rebuild (and whiffed on back to back first overall picks in Appel and Aiken), and didn't make the playoffs until 2015, which again is the equivalent of the Reds 2019 season.

All we can say right now is that Williams hasn't turned the Reds into a winner at an incredible pace. He has them lined up to be a winner in 2020, which is pretty darn good. It should be noted that neither of those two example teams made the playoffs again the following season. It took an extra season, and some big payroll bumps, for them both to become a consistent winner.

[bucksfan2]

Pitching is usually their weakness. While what you state is the ideal, the word "cheaper" with "better/effective" might not be reality. I think he should spend more on pitching.

Its pretty much exactly reality. Its not about taking Max Scherzer and making him better, he is already a HOF caliber pitcher. Its finding the guys who have underperformed what their natural ability should possess. Its about finding a guy who is toiling around in the minors or a guy who has been a journeyman in the league. You aren't going to pay top dollar for that player, but if you can sign him, mechanically change his delivery, and all of a sudden add velocity to his fastball, you have a more effective pitcher.

Its all about finding inefficiencies in the game. If you can build a rotation of players for less expensive than their WAR would suggest you have just freed up money to spend elsewhere. It isn't about not spending on pitching, its about spending smarter. Its about getting more value from the dollars you allocate to pitching.