Jeter and Walker inducted to Hall of Fame

[Cyclone792]

There is a worthy thread, poll, discussion for RedsZone in this post. I'd be interested in seeing a RedsZone all-time MLB team debate. Example of a possible discussion, would Bench run away as the starting catcher since this is a Reds site or would any posters advocate for someone like Ivan Rodriguez?

Bench in a landslide over Rodriguez at catcher.

WAR inflates the value of Rodriguez, IMO, because the flaws of dWAR inflate the value of Rodriguez overall. dWAR has Rodriguez as 10 full WAR above Bench in defensive value alone, which is absurd.

I am too young and never saw Bench play live, but as time goes on I watch more baseball and have a greater understanding of all the various statistical analysis that's been out there for the last two decades. And through all that, I've grown an appreciation for how great Bench truly was.

Bench is the greatest catcher of all-time, and I'm not sure that it's particularly close.

[westofyou]

Johnny Bench was not only a great catcher he was a great ballplayer, he would have made the HOF as an infielder or an outfielder

Gary Carter was better than Pudge

[redsfandan]

Makes me wonder how good Josh Gibson would've been in the majors.

[cincinnati chili]

I got killed for saying it on this board, but I don’t think Ivan Rodriguez was a Hall of Famer let alone in Bench’s class. He didn’t get on base at a Hall of Fame rate and was horrible at handling pitching staffs.

[BCubb2003]

Inner Circle is the new Hall of Fame.

[westofyou]

I got killed for saying it on this board, but I don’t think Ivan Rodriguez was a Hall of Famer let alone in Bench’s class. He didn’t get on base at a Hall of Fame rate and was horrible at handling pitching staffs.

1990-2000 Pudge had an OPS+ 111, Juan Gonzalez 134, he also couldn't get on base

Pudge had a great year in 2000, OPS of 1.054, problem is that's the second biggest offensive year in modern baseball history. His OPS+ was only 156 the only year he topped 140, JB topped 140 five times

[BernieCarbo]

Pedro’s peak beats Clemens (and everyone else) but overall it’s Fat Rog for me.

Not unless you include Roid Rog from '97-on. Before then, Roger and Pedro had the same innings pitched, and Pedro comes out way ahead even though his numbers include his non peak years. The guy was incredible.

With Roger, it was obvious that he was completely out of shape at the end of his Boston career, but then he suddenly was ripped (along with his wife) when he got to Toronto.

[kaldaniels]

Not unless you include Roid Rog from '97-on. Before then, Roger and Pedro had the same innings pitched, and Pedro comes out way ahead even though his numbers include his non peak years. The guy was incredible.

With Roger, it was obvious that he was completely out of shape at the end of his Boston career, but then he suddenly was ripped (along with his wife) when he got to Toronto.

Oh I definitely am including both Fat and Roid Rog.

Count it all, I gave up on sorting it out a long time ago.

I’m not a fan of all that going on for what it’s worth. But it’s done and in the books.

[kaldaniels]

Inner Circle is the new Hall of Fame.

Until the Inner Circle Committee lets Baines in.

[M2]

Until the Inner Circle Committee lets Baines in.

Sunny Jim Bottomley see your Inner Circle and says, "Hold my beer."

[tripleaaaron]

It is interesting that baseball, as a sport, has kept a number of their all time record holders out of the Hall of Fame.

Meanwhile, the NFL has two murderers in theirs.

When is Aaron Hernandez eligible to make that 3?

[krm1580]

I don't think anyone can credibly make the argument that he was the best Yankee of all-time, much less the best baseball player. But he is loved. By a lot of baseball fans. That really seems to irk some people and I'm not sure why.

I would be one of the people irked by Jeter love. Here the thing, his peers, the guys who he closely aligns with statistically are guys like Craig Biggio, Robin Yount or Barry Larkin. If you want to talk post season, Yankee lore, etc how about Bernie Williams. None of those guys are compared to Ruth or Mantle because they are not in that class, but for some reason with Jeter .817 OPS+Love=Babe Ruth. I'm a rational guy it does not make any sense to me and you can't have a rational conversation with people who think that way.

To be clear I respected the guy was PED free. I really respected the guy despite his fame and playing in NYC with all the opportunity in the world was never a soap opera or off field circus but an elite player he was not.

[Phoenix2]

I believe Jeter is a first-ballot hall of famer. Sure, he was still overrated but that will happen when you are a likable guy who steered clear of scandal, won many championships and played in NYC. Its all good.

[Chip R]

I believe Jeter is a first-ballot hall of famer. Sure, he was still overrated but that will happen when you are a likable guy who steered clear of scandal, won many championships and played in NYC. Its all good.

And that's why Eli Manning is going to make the Pro Football HOF. You could say Jeter was a better SS than Eli was a QB but while I think almost everyone agrees Jeter's a HOFer, Eli's support seems to be split down the middle.

[goreds2]

Could have been a strategic omission to vote for 10 others.

Regardless I don’t care. 2nd best % ever.

Jeter "only" had 90.43% of the vote on RedsZone. http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...OF-Ballot-Vote