Jeter and Walker inducted to Hall of Fame

[kaldaniels]

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...st=0&players=0

Rank them how you want but here is arguably a list of greatest pitchers ever. It’s kinda funny looking at their rates. Clemens was “only” at 8.5 K/9! Obviously the old time guys played in a different era so they really look out of whack. Pedro looks very good but at only 2800 or so innings I just can’t give him “greatest pitcher ever” status. (In terms of career)

[wolfboy]

let's be honest: derek jeter having the second best % of hall of fame votes of all time is absurd. it is akin to saying that jeter is the second-best player in baseball history.

my goodness was he overrated. very good, but overrated nonetheless. people are actually upset he wasn't a unanimous selection. why? why does he deserve the mantle of best baseball player of all time? it's frankly ridiculous imo.

I don't think anyone can credibly make the argument that he was the best Yankee of all-time, much less the best baseball player. But he is loved. By a lot of baseball fans. That really seems to irk some people and I'm not sure why.

[savafan]

It is interesting that baseball, as a sport, has kept a number of their all time record holders out of the Hall of Fame.

Meanwhile, the NFL has two murderers in theirs.

[Chip R]

Maybe it was his attitude at times, but it is kind of hard to believe Manny Ramirez only got 25% of votes. With 550+ HR's and a .312 career BA, I thought he would do better.

I guess he got roided.

That, his poor defense and the roids.

[westofyou]

It is interesting that baseball, as a sport, has kept a number of their all time record holders out of the Hall of Fame.

Meanwhile, the NFL has two murderers in theirs.

The NFL always seems to be lagging in getting guys in there too Champ Bailey getting in there before Alex Karras, Ray Guy before Stabler... just seems weird

[kaldaniels]

I mean big picture I really don't care.

But on the other hand I hope the 1 non-Jeter voter doesn't open the door for "If Jeter wasn't unanimous no one should be" pettiness we could be hearing for the next 15 years.

[Todd Gack]

That, his poor defense and the roids.

Defense? He's the only OF in MLB history to make a spectacular diving cutoff from shallow left center field. That alone should get him in the HOF.

[REDREAD]

So a couple of thoughts..
1. If Clemens and Bonds are kept out due to the "cloud of steroids", shouldn't Schilling be kept out too? I am fuzzy on the details, I think he admitted to giving them to his wife before a photoshoot and there was some other evidence as well.. Now maybe that evidence doesn't hold up in a court of law, but you could say the same about just about any athlete from that era, when they weren't really testing.

2. IMO, Schilling doesn't deserve to be in the HOF at all, even discounting the Roid issue.
He's going to get a huge bump in votes for his two world series , not really sure that is fair to guys that get buried in a small TV market and are not hyped as much.. Schilling had a very good career. I won't be mad if Schilling gets in (I stopped caring about the HOF), I just don't think he deserved it.
On the other hand, of course, there's probably at least a dozen picthers worse than him already in, so that is a valid argument as well.

[Phoenix2]

So a couple of thoughts..
1. If Clemens and Bonds are kept out due to the "cloud of steroids", shouldn't Schilling be kept out too? I am fuzzy on the details, I think he admitted to giving them to his wife before a photoshoot and there was some other evidence as well.. Now maybe that evidence doesn't hold up in a court of law, but you could say the same about just about any athlete from that era, when they weren't really testing.

2. IMO, Schilling doesn't deserve to be in the HOF at all, even discounting the Roid issue.
He's going to get a huge bump in votes for his two world series , not really sure that is fair to guys that get buried in a small TV market and are not hyped as much.. Schilling had a very good career. I won't be mad if Schilling gets in (I stopped caring about the HOF), I just don't think he deserved it.
On the other hand, of course, there's probably at least a dozen picthers worse than him already in, so that is a valid argument as well.

I kinda agree about not caring...the Hall is watered down and its not such a big deal anymore. But still I'd say Schilling should be in:
(from CBSsports): Schilling's on-field case is clear, too. He led his league in wins twice, complete games four times, innings twice, strikeouts twice, WHIP twice, was a six-time All-Star and finished second in Cy Young voting three times. He won three World Series rings while securing an NLCS MVP and World Series MVP. He's one of the greatest playoff pitchers in history. In 19 October starts, he went 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA, 0.97 WHIP and 120 strikeouts against 25 walks in 133 1/3 innings. And yes, there's a signature moment in there involving blood and a sock.

His WAR is above the average Hall of Fame starting pitcher and tops the likes of John Smoltz, Jim Palmer, Carl Hubbell, Don Drysdale, Don Sutton, Roy Halladay, Bob Feller and Juan Marichal among others.

[kaldaniels]

I’d be interested in the case that Schilling does not belong based on baseball merits. It would require a small hall thought, but I’d want to know the “least deserving” pitcher you think belongs in for context.

[westofyou]

I’d be interested in the case that Schilling does not belong based on baseball merits. It would require a small hall thought, but I’d want to know the “least deserving” pitcher you think belongs in for context.

Jesse Haines

[PTjvs]

So a couple of thoughts..
1. If Clemens and Bonds are kept out due to the "cloud of steroids", shouldn't Schilling be kept out too? I am fuzzy on the details, I think he admitted to giving them to his wife before a photoshoot and there was some other evidence as well.. Now maybe that evidence doesn't hold up in a court of law, but you could say the same about just about any athlete from that era, when they weren't really testing.
.

The only "wife taking PEDs" story I ever remember was Clemens' wife taking HGH.

jvs

[PTjvs]

They were HOF players before they enhanced, so was ARod and Manny.

ARod was rumored to be taking PEDs in high school.

jvs

[Tuff Nut]

The only "wife taking PEDs" story I ever remember was Clemens' wife taking HGH.

jvs

I know he played football, but Peyton Manning says HI.

[RedsBaron]

The only "wife taking PEDs" story I ever remember was Clemens' wife taking HGH.

jvs

Ditto.

Curt Schilling and John Smoltz were direct contemporaries, and share the distinction of being the best post season starting pitchers of their generation. Smoltz went 15-4 with a 2.67 ERA in the post season while Schilling went 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA.
Smoltz's career record was 213-155 while Schilling's was 216-146. Smoltz had a career ERA of 3.33 with a 125 ERA+ while Schilling had a career ERA of 3.46 and a 127 ERA+. Smoltz pitched 3473 innings and struck out 3084 batters while Schilling pitched 3261 innings and struck out 3116 batters. Smoltz deservedly was inducted into the HOF his first year on the ballot while Schilling has been denied eight years running.
Of greater significance, at least to those who give credibility to advanced analytics, Schilling has a career WAR score of 79.5, ranking 27th all time in the century and a half of MLB. Smoltz has a career WAR score of 69.0 and ranks 62nd all time.
Career WAR isn't everything but the following 42 pitchers are in the Hall of Fame and have lower career WAR scores than Curt Schilling: Ed Walsh, Mike Mussina, Tom Glavine, Nolan Ryan, Al Spalding, Mickey Welch, Jim Palmer, Carl Hubbell, Hal Newhouser, Ray Halladay, Juan Marichal, Don Drysdale, Clark Griffith, Ted Lyons, Stan Coveliski, Joe McGinnity, Dazzy Vance, Red Ruffing, Jim Bunning, John Smoltz, Rube Waddell, Red Faber, Don Sutton, Mordecai Brown, Early Wynn, Sandy Koufax, Burleigh Grimes, Whitey Ford, Dizzy Dean, Eppa Rixey, Waite Hoyt, Bob Lemon, Addie Joss, Jack Chesbro, Herb Pennock, Chief Bender, Jack Morris, Catfish Hunter, Lefty Gomez, Candy Cummings, Rube Marquard, Jesse Haines.

Oh, as for the 26 pitchers with a higher WAR than Schilling, here's the list of those pitchers who are NOT in the Hall of Fame: Roger Clemens.
Someone give me a baseball reason why Schilling should not be in the HOF.