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Thread: Jeter and Walker inducted to Hall of Fame

  1. #76
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    Re: Jeter and Walker inducted to Hall of Fame

    another reason bonds & clemens should be in, imo: i guarantee you there are guys in the HOF right now who we all think were clean, but were using PEDs themselves. names that would shock us all. jmo.

    there's a lot of smart people on this board. do you really think only the guys who got caught were cheating? exactly. there's no chance that happened. some guys slipped through the cracks for sure imo.

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  4. #77
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Jeter and Walker inducted to Hall of Fame

    Jeter strikes me as a bit underrated. He's perhaps the most consistent and durable ballplayer I've ever seen. It's incredibly hard to do. Playing SS through your 30s is also incredibly hard. ARod, Yount and Banks all got off the position before age 30. He played the 2nd most games at SS ever. Having a guy like that, one who's going to produce 3.0+ WAR for 14 consecutive seasons at the hardest position on the field to man, makes it so much easier to construct a team.

    Jeter's cumulative numbers are staggering. We sometimes have these great vs. very good arguments with the HOF. You can be very good and put up some tasty rate stats (which then feeds your WAR). The true greats get the cumulative numbers. They get to the front of the pack earlier and stay there later. Jeter was the linchpin in a dynasty. And that's ignoring the 158 games, 271 times on base (200 hits), 111 runs and .308/.374/.465 line he put together in the playoffs. That's insane. We got so used to it that it got weirdly normalized in our heads. Oh, it's just a guy playing an entire season's worth of baseball in the postseason. It's not normal. It's outrageous.

    And you can't just chalk it up to the Yankees being the Yankees. The Jeter run for the Yankees stretched from 1996-2012. They only missed the playoffs once during that time (2008). They won their division 13 times in those 17 seasons. They went to the World Series seven times and won five of them. Since then they've won their division once (last year) in seven seasons. Prior to that they'd gone 14 seasons without winning their division (though with two strike-based asterisks on that - had the division firmly in hand 1994 and were awarded the 1st half AL East crown in 1981). Just being the Yankees doesn't actually win you anything. By the mid-90s my Yankees fan friends were taking regular heat for being a franchise in ruin. The Jeter run was so overwhelming it made everyone forget that. Baseball fans are still twitching from it. There's a good chance we never see anything remotely like the Jeter Yankees again.

    Jeter was the epicenter of the most dominant team run since the westward expansion of the game. We can all marvel at the talent of Mike Trout, but (despite his club paying huge amounts of money) he hasn't accomplished much at the team level. Jeets is in rarefied air that only guys like Bill Russell, Tom Brady and Jean Beliveau get to breathe. They crossed the line from performing into winning.
    Last edited by M2; 01-24-2020 at 03:35 PM.
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  6. #78
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    Re: Jeter and Walker inducted to Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by JFLegal View Post
    another reason bonds & clemens should be in, imo: i guarantee you there are guys in the HOF right now who we all think were clean, but were using PEDs themselves. names that would shock us all. jmo.

    there's a lot of smart people on this board. do you really think only the guys who got caught were cheating? exactly. there's no chance that happened. some guys slipped through the cracks for sure imo.
    Excellent point. In fact, I'll toss two names out for supposed non-steroid guys who kind of fit the steroid profile: Mike Schmidt and Nolan Ryan. That whole generation has been given a pass on the steroids issue even though steroids were around and easy to get.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

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  8. #79
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    Re: Jeter and Walker inducted to Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Excellent point. In fact, I'll toss two names out for supposed non-steroid guys who kind of fit the steroid profile: Mike Schmidt and Nolan Ryan. That whole generation has been given a pass on the steroids issue even though steroids were around and easy to get.
    Be very careful of accusing Nolan Ryan of anything untoward, you might end up getting "Ventura'd". http://notsportscenter.com/wp-conten...an_ventura.gif
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    Last edited by texasdave; 01-24-2020 at 03:04 PM.

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  10. #80
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Jeter and Walker inducted to Hall of Fame

    You can fill in the blank with any player you want but I’ve asked before...

    Why do we just assume Griffey Jr. was clean?

  11. #81
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Jeter and Walker inducted to Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    You can fill in the blank with any player you want but I’ve asked before...

    Why do we just assume Griffey Jr. was clean?
    Because the only thing that seemed to grow on Griffey Jr. was his midsection.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  12. #82
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    Re: Jeter and Walker inducted to Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    You can fill in the blank with any player you want but I’ve asked before...

    Why do we just assume Griffey Jr. was clean?
    Because he went to Moeller!!!

    Was afraid of needles

    Has a brother named Craig

    His mom would have kicked his butt

  13. #83
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Jeter and Walker inducted to Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Excellent point. In fact, I'll toss two names out for supposed non-steroid guys who kind of fit the steroid profile: Mike Schmidt and Nolan Ryan. That whole generation has been given a pass on the steroids issue even though steroids were around and easy to get.
    1969 SI does a piece on Steroids, Tom House juiced.. he spoke of it in his book The Diamond Appraised

    Brian Downing is a suspect IMO

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  15. #84
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    Re: Jeter and Walker inducted to Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    You can fill in the blank with any player you want but I’ve asked before...

    Why do we just assume Griffey Jr. was clean?
    I can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. There are basically no sports figures from the last 50 years I'd bet my life were clean.

    jvs

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  17. #85
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    Re: Jeter and Walker inducted to Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    1969 SI does a piece on Steroids, Tom House juiced.. he spoke of it in his book The Diamond Appraised

    Brian Downing is a suspect IMO
    Anybody who worked with Mackie Shilstone gets an immediate question mark from me.

    Here's some gems from a 1987 article about how Shilstone was working with Ozzie Smith and Will Clark:

    In late February, he worked at a training camp attended by many of the nation's top cyclists in California's Carmel Valley.

    'Cyclists are very traditional in their training programs, but I wanted to show them how diet and different types of exercise could make them perform better,' he said. 'When it comes to these areas of sports finess the Russians and East Germans are light years ahead of us. But I think we are starting to catch them.'
    That's like a hurricane of red flags.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

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  19. #86
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Jeter and Walker inducted to Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Because he went to Moeller!!!

    Was afraid of needles

    Has a brother named Craig

    His mom would have kicked his butt
    That's enough for me. Not Guilty!

  20. #87
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Jeter and Walker inducted to Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Anybody who worked with Mackie Shilstone gets an immediate question mark from me.

    Here's some gems from a 1987 article about how Shilstone was working with Ozzie Smith and Will Clark:



    That's like a hurricane of red flags.
    Clark fits the bill too, plus he had that on the edge vibe all the time

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  22. #88
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    Re: Jeter and Walker inducted to Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    That whole generation has been given a pass on the steroids issue even though steroids were around and easy to get.
    No doubt about it.

  23. #89
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    Re: Jeter and Walker inducted to Hall of Fame

    Jeter is clearly a HOFer , but not any more than a number of other SS who got a lot less votes than him.

    Close to unanimous ?

    Come in.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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    Re: Jeter and Walker inducted to Hall of Fame

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Because he went to Moeller!!!

    Was afraid of needles

    Has a brother named Craig

    His mom would have kicked his butt
    Or the fact his career trajectory doesn't fit steroid use. But let's play up the fact he is from Cincinnati, so you can't have a positive opinion about them.


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