Where do you bat Votto?

[Alpha Zero]

Hitting him 6th would be my preference:

Shogo/Senzel
Winker/Ervin
Suarez
Moustakas
Castellanos
Votto
Galvis
Barnhart/Casali

If he looks a bit rejuvenated over the first month or so, I could be convinced to move him back into the 2nd slot.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I'd go:

Akiyama
Votto
Suarez
Moustakas
Castellanos
Winker/ Ervin/ Aquino/ Senzel
Galvis
Barnsali

Nice LH/ RH balance, good pop, decent patience.

That's an above average lineup (though SS could be addressed more effectively).

[Ladeda]

I think I'm changing my mind here. I'm starting to think that Castellanos goes into the #2 hole if he hits like he was doing with the Cubs last year. OBP .356, Slugging .646, OPS 1.002.

I bring this up because at first I was thinking Castellanos batting 5th. Well over the course of a season, the #2 hitter averages 738 plate appearances while the #5 hitter averages 687. That's 51 PA's more over the course of a season. I think I'd rather see Nick batting 2nd than 5th because he should easily outproduce Votto with those #'s.

His OBP was .356 with the Cubs, while Votto's was .357 last year. The difference is slugging where Cast was .646 to Votto's .411. Granted, last year's performance doesn't equate to future performance, but with Votto aging, 9 times out of 10 his #'s will drop from last year. I think Nick is the guy in the 2 hole if he hits somewhat close to
what he did with the Cubs. Even if Votto has a slightly better OBP, I want the guy who is slugging over 100 points higher.

Granted, form is temporary, class is permanent. Maybe Nick doesn't quite hit as well as he did with the Cubs. But even if his OBP is 20 points lower than Votto's-- that equates to Votto getting on base just 13 times next year. Those 13 times don't justify a potential 100 point difference in slugging %.

All I know is, vs Lefties-- Castellanos is in the 2 hole. Vs righties, there can be some debate between Nick/Winker/Ervin/Votto occupying that spot.

[Phoenix2]

I wouldn't spend any energy thinking about the lineup. David Bell is an Overmanager and you will never see the same lineup twice.

[TeamSelig]

I like him in the 3 hole vs RHP. Vs LHP I’d move him to 6 or 7th and give him lots of scheduled breaks vs LHP.

Vs RHP

1) Winker LF
2) Suarez 3B
3) Votto 1B
4) Moose 2B
5) Castellanos RF
6) Senzel CF
7) Tucker C
8) Galvis SS

Shogo spot starts in CF and RF

[corkedbat]

Power Forward

[Bourgeois Zee]

Power Forward

That's Amir Garrett's spot.

[cincinnati chili]

Votto had a bad year for him. Only a .357 on base percentage. You know who has NEVER had an OBP that good in the major leagues?

Galvis
Barnhart
Castellanos
Moustakas
Senzel
Akiyama

By my count, that's everybody in the typical starting lineup except Suarez.

Batting him down in the lineup would be silly.

[schroomytunes]

To me this is ideal:

1) Shogo
2) Votto
3) Castellanos
4) Suarez
5) Moustakas
6) Winker/Senzel/Ervin/Aquino
7) Galvis
8) Barnhart/Casali

--Joey still gets on base at a good clip, and I actually like Suarez in the 4 hole and Castellanos in the 3, as Suarez can mash with more men on base!!

[Bob Sheed]

Just can't leave Votto in the 2 hole while he "warms up the Ferrari" or whatever for 2 months.

[allpurpose]

Here's where i think they open the season..
1. Akiyama-CF
2. Votto-1st
3 or 5. Mosstakas-2nd
4. Suarez-3rd (if ready)
5 or 3. Castellanos-LF
6. Aquino-RF
7 or 8. Barnhart-C
8 or 7.Galvis-SS
9. BILLY HAMILTON-SP (not really)

If they find Akiyama can't hit ML pitching that'll suck worse than used toilet paper for diner..

[Ladeda]

Votto had a bad year for him. Only a .357 on base percentage. You know who has NEVER had an OBP that good in the major leagues?

Galvis
Barnhart
Castellanos
Moustakas
Senzel
Akiyama

By my count, that's everybody in the typical starting lineup except Suarez.

Batting him down in the lineup would be silly.

OBP isn't the end all be all decider of where people bat. Teams tend to put their best hitters 2nd or 3rd. Votto is no longer the teams best hitter. His OPS has gone from 1.032 to .837 to a pedestrian .768. Even if he was batting only vs Righties, his OPS was .814 which would have been good for 67th best in baseball last year among qualified hitters. Couple that with his terrible trendline, and he really shouldn't be batting 2nd next year unless he turns it around.

Who would you rather have? OBP .358 Slug .519 OPS 887 or
OBP .361 Slug .453 OPS .814

Give me Player 1. Player 1 is Winker vs Righties, Player 2 is Votto vs Righties. Jesse is likely to improve on his numbers, while Votto is likely to decline.

Votto will still likely get the 1st shot to bat 2nd vs Righties-- but if his OPS is .800 or lower-- there are much better options in the 2 spot than him. (On Paper. You never know- the whole team could start in a slump like they seemed to do last year.)

[Sea Ray]

Just can't leave Votto in the 2 hole while he "warms up the Ferrari" or whatever for 2 months.

You make a great point. He's earned the privilege of starting the yr in the 2 slot but if he's cold as ice like he was last yr, they cannot leave him there. It hurts the team too much. Let's hope Bell has the fortitude to move him. This will be very telling of his strength as a manager and whether he learned anything from his "rookie" year

[RedForLife]

Bell should put Votto back to 3rd in the order. That's his comfort zone and where his production lies.

[SomeCallMeTim]

Second....

For the Blue Jays, eh? I kid...

I agree with Bob. You can’t give Votto a long leash in the 2/3 spot if he doesn’t come out of hibernation until Memorial Day.

I think Votto’s spot (if he is produces at 80% prime) is not as a big deal as not having the DH and the lineup flexibility it could have given us more lineup options without having to lock Votto in at 1B.

I just got a little tired of Votto’s approach or tendency (it seemed to me) to prefer taking a walk over hitting.