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Thread: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

  1. #91
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Any issues with these cars for us folks who have to survive Winter? Do these electric cars give you decent heat on zero degree days? Does the cold impact its range?


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  3. #92
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Any issues with these cars for us folks who have to survive Winter? Do these electric cars give you decent heat on zero degree days? Does the cold impact its range?
    There are some issues, although I'll admit as a Florida resident I'm not up to speed on them. Cold affects range. So if you live in a cold weather environment, you need to make sure you have plenty of slop. For example if I lived in cold weather and my round trip was 200, I might not feel comfortable with a car that had 250 of range.

    But if my commute was 175, it would probably never cross my mind.

    Electric cars like to do other tricks like heated seats and steering wheels so you don't use much heating. Since there's no hot motor or radiator, you need to generate heat from electricity. I know newer models have switched to a type of heater that used much less juice.
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  4. #93
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    GM is about to announce an electric Hummer with 1000 HP on Sunday during the Super Bowl:

    https://www.foxnews.com/auto/gm-humm...tric-truck-gmc
    I think that is part of GM's strategy (and what started this thread), they are going to produce expensive electric vehicles. If their Hummer is less than $55,000 I'll be very surprised.
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    Sea Ray (01-30-2020)

  6. #94
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Thanks for those replies. I'm done questioning you.

    Go back to your regularly scheduled programming...

  7. #95
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    I think we're saying the same thing.... The higher price of electric vehicles is the primary deterrent to adoption. I paid about $28,500 for my gas car and $36,000 for my electric (both very nicely equipped models). Even though I never pay for oil changes or gas it will take a LONG time to make that up. Maybe never. When the price is essentially the same, people will RUN to buy the electric.

    I did not buy electric to save money. I did not buy electric to save the planet. If either of those happens, it's a bonus.

    I bought electric for the same reason I replaced my perfectly fine HD televisions with 4K TV's. I wanted to experience leading edge technology. Having experienced that technology, I never want to go back. And I'm not alone. They just did a survey and 96% of electric drivers say they will never go back
    This is what I'm trying to get at unsuccessfully, people are still stuck on range and talking as if electric cars are inferior experiences, and have missed the fact that they are far better vehicles now in basically every way. The market for gas-powered cars is going to crater once prices are similar.
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  8. #96
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    Electric cars like to do other tricks like heated seats and steering wheels so you don't use much heating.
    Very successfully I have to add - it's amazing how little heat you need to come out of the vents when the steering wheel and seats are both warm. You still need some on cold days, of course, but not nearly as much.
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  9. #97
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Any issues with these cars for us folks who have to survive Winter? Do these electric cars give you decent heat on zero degree days? Does the cold impact its range?
    Yes - there are issues.

    ..."The operation of HVAC systems in PEVs or any fully electric vehicle poses many of the same problems that running other systems face, but HVAC use poses some unique challenges, too.

    In climates where electric cars are or will be a major part of the transportation load from now on, consumers demand efficient and powerful heating and cooling in their vehicles. To help system improvements now underway in fully electric vehicles, engineers had to move away from the vehicle’s ability to use the large amount of excess heat produced by internal combustion engines. Regulating the temperature in any battery vehicle is a delicate venture since the power source degrades by calculable amounts under regular use, but by irregular amounts under the most stressful conditions.

    The latest technology to address the comfort inside the cabin of EVs uses heat pumps, vaporized coolant and new designs of the coolant flow systems by EV makers. The most inefficient method used in the last decade is resistive heating, in which power from the battery is turned to heat simply by running power through resistant wiring, uses a large amount of battery capacity. As we will see, heat coefficients, gas exchange, heating/cooling transition, start-up delivery and battery lifecycles all contribute to the viability of a reliable cabin HVAC system. Manufacturers will also be concerned with costs, as always."...

    Full article:

    https://www.automotive-iq.com/electr...ng-and-cooling

  10. #98
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    I'm not your typical driver. I don't drive much. Most of my trips are sub 5 miles, or 100+ miles. It's not very often there's a trip between those two. That could certainly change by the time I'm ready to buy a new car (I just paid off my 2015 Cruze). And the technology/range/quickness of charging in non-Tesla's/availability to chargers across the country could change by then, too. I love the idea of an electric car for so many different reasons. But the range can certainly be a mitigating factor for idiots like me who travel across the country but are also terrified of flying so that's not an option. Public transit, in general, is an issue for me (not due to the fear, like it is with flying, but due to some health-related disabilities).

    I love the idea of less maintenance on a vehicle because there's just less than can go wrong. What I hate about Tesla, though, is their anti-right to repair and the fact that you have to basically take the car to the dealer or void your warranty by letting someone else work on the thing. I don't know if other electric vehicle producing companies are the same way or not, but that always gives me some hesitancy. It's late and I'm just typing out loud here, but having options on pricing to fix a vehicle is nice rather than just "if you want your car to work again you have to pay us this exact price and since we are the only ones allowed to work on it, you're paying it".

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    North (01-31-2020)

  12. #99
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Doug, it certainly sounds as if an electric car is not right for you. I might suggest either the Plug In Hybrid Toyota Rav4 or the Plug In Ford Escape might be. The Rav4 will do 39 miles electric and then become a regular gas car, and the Escape will do 30. And both will be roomy vehicles for lots of equipment. If you do a lot of short trips and have a place to charge you would get fantastic overall mileage. But I seem to recall you might live in an apartment.

    I will say however that you need to be VERY skeptical when you hear some horror story about electric vehicles and especially Teslas. There are a lot of people out there that are very threatened by electrics and Teslas and they spread a lot of disinformation, and outright lies.

    What you've heard about Tesla's and voiding your warranty is mostly false. The Magnuson-Moss Act of 1975 prevents any manufacturer from voiding your warranty because you used a third party to repair your car. The problem I hear about is that because Tesla's aren't like most cars (many people like to call them computers on wheels) is that there aren't many third party people that can fix them. And that Tesla would have to open up to much of their "secret sauce" in order for people to fix them.

    Example - The glove compartment on the Model 3 opens and closes via the computer screen not with a latch. Your average shop is not going to have a clue.

    I may end up with a Tesla Model Y in a couple years. If I do, I would not DREAM of taking it to someone other than Tesla.
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  13. #100
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Yeah - as I said, I'm hoping for my current car to last me a while still. And hopefully by the time I'm ready to purchase something else, something is a better fit (either better range, or better/quicker/more charging facilities everywhere). We'll see how things develop in the next handful of years.

  14. #101
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    I think that is part of GM's strategy (and what started this thread), they are going to produce expensive electric vehicles. If their Hummer is less than $55,000 I'll be very surprised.
    actually from what I have seen the GMC Hummer more resembles the size and look of the H3.....and that 1,000 HP version will be the high end version. I think the base model will likely come in around that range.

    https://www.autoweek.com/news/future...s-report-says/

  15. #102
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    https://ca.reuters.com/article/busin.../idCAKBN2071OY

    (Reuters) - Tesla Inc on Thursday announced plans to raise $2 billion in a stock offering, tapping into an astronomical jump in its share price over the past few months and reversing the electric-car maker’s often-stated policy of avoiding sales of new stock.
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  16. #103
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    GM is having an "EV Day" tomorrow to convince analysts that they have a plan going forward. Will be interesting to see what they say. Batteries, not vehicles, are the key. Everyone trying to make Evs are constrained by the need for a cheap, plentiful supply of batteries.

    It's why GM has only one electric car, and it's way over priced, and that all the talk of new vehicles are for expensive models like the Hummer.
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    GM is having an "EV Day" tomorrow to convince analysts that they have a plan going forward. Will be interesting to see what they say. Batteries, not vehicles, are the key. Everyone trying to make Evs are constrained by the need for a cheap, plentiful supply of batteries.

    It's why GM has only one electric car, and it's way over priced, and that all the talk of new vehicles are for expensive models like the Hummer.
    They are also constrained by performance in temperature extremes, infrastructure, and inability to compete in an open market without taxpayer subsidies.

    Sales of electric vehicles plummet in Ontario now that province has cancelled rebate

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...cles-1.5397190

  18. #105
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    GM is having an "EV Day" tomorrow to convince analysts that they have a plan going forward. Will be interesting to see what they say. Batteries, not vehicles, are the key. Everyone trying to make Evs are constrained by the need for a cheap, plentiful supply of batteries.

    It's why GM has only one electric car, and it's way over priced, and that all the talk of new vehicles are for expensive models like the Hummer.
    Some more details about this...

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...-idUSKBN20Q2N2


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