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Thread: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

  1. #16
    Member JaxRed's Avatar
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Jax you've been a world of information on these electric vehicles. I agree that there is a market for them. My issue is the battery. Am I correct that the warranty is not transferable? Doesn't that kill the resale value of the car? Do you still get tax rebates for buying these cars?
    No, you are incorrect. Battery warranties transfer. Never heard of one that doesn't. There's a lot of talk that Tesla will unveil a million mile battery this year.

    Whether you get a rebate depends on what you buy. Tesla and GM have already used up their rebates. Nissan is getting close but still has full rebate. No one else has barely sold any so they have theirs.
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  3. #17
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    When Chevy made the Volt, they then held a 20-year patent on its technology and will never give it up to anybody. Same is true with Tesla and any other new way of improving the electric technology. This is the main reason why everything is going slowly. To ride this out, we purchased three Subaru's (pzev's, two outback's and a forester) over the last four years to get us through 2030. By then, two of our drivers will be dead or not driving anymore, but they will be replaced by two other drivers. The electric vehicle options should be very good by 2030. Subaru was one of the last to get into the electric vehicle business because there simply isn't an efficient way of doing so while at the same time keeping it ecologically safe for the environment. Batteries need to be recycled and can't end up in a dump. 100% of Subaru's pzev vehicles are recycleable and do less harm to the environment over their lifetimes than 100% of all other vehicles, including Tesla's.
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 01-29-2020 at 01:35 PM.
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  4. #18
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    When Chevy made the Volt, they then held a 20-year patent on its technology and will never give it up to anybody. Same is true with Tesla and any other new way of improving the electric technology. This is the main reason why everything is going slowly. To ride this out, we purchased three Subaru's (pzev's, two outback's and a forester) over the last four years to get us through 2030. By then, two of our drivers will be dead or not driving anymore, but they will be replaced by two other drivers. The electric vehicle options should be very good by 2030. Subaru was one of the last to get into the electric vehicle business because there simply isn't an efficient way of doing so while at the same time keeping it ecologically safe for the environment. Batteries need to be recycled and can't end up in a dump. 100% of Subaru's pzev vehicles are recycleable and do less harm to the environment over their lifetimes than 100% of all other vehicles, including Tesla's.
    You live in Portland. You didn't need to tell us you own a Subaru, we already know.

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  6. #19
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    No, you are incorrect. Battery warranties transfer. Never heard of one that doesn't. There's a lot of talk that Tesla will unveil a million mile battery this year.

    Whether you get a rebate depends on what you buy. Tesla and GM have already used up their rebates. Nissan is getting close but still has full rebate. No one else has barely sold any so they have theirs.
    Good. It should be transferable. So is it 8 yrs/96K miles? Is it pro rated after awhile or not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    So from a macro standpoint what happens on high travel dates? There aren't going to be millions of rental cars just sitting around waiting for Thanksgiving weekend. (Where much to the rental companies chagrin there will be a lot of miles put on the car...so hello expensive rentals). This is a sincere issue/question. Something has to give if you can't hop in your own car and drive to a far destination easily .
    I think the idea is that it's best to have a gas powered car in the family too.

  7. #20
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I think the idea is that it's best to have a gas powered car in the family too.
    To get by now, that is true - but that seems like a temporary solution that really doesn't get (the vast majority of) people to go "all in" for electric. Not to mention the large environmental push to get all gas cars off the road. I'm sure it's not the greatest thing for gas engines to just sit and sit waiting for "the right time" to be used as well.

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  9. #21
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    To get by now, that is true - but that seems like a temporary solution that really doesn't get (the vast majority of) people to go "all in" for electric. Not to mention the large environmental push to get all gas cars off the road. I'm sure it's not the greatest thing for gas engines to just sit and sit waiting for "the right time" to be used as well.
    I agree with the person that said that electric cars will never completely replace gas powered until they match the range.

  10. #22
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I agree with the person that said that electric cars will never completely replace gas powered until they match the range.
    I think that's a given. Hopefully by that point we've gone full on autonomous anyway, so that no one (or at least almost no one) needs to actually own their own car.

  11. #23
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    I think that's a given. Hopefully by that point we've gone full on autonomous anyway, so that no one (or at least almost no one) needs to actually own their own car.
    ??? Autonomous or not I still want to own my car

  12. #24
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    So from a macro standpoint what happens on high travel dates?
    Once the charging tech is good enough I don't think it's going to bother people that much to stop and charge for 30 minutes every 4+ hours. I fully realize that will sound crazy to some people, but I think this for two reasons:

    - It's a small bit of time for all the benefits of an electric car, and I'm not talking about just environmental. They are more fun to drive, they are way cheaper to run, they break down less.

    - On long roadtrips, people take longer to pump gas than they want to admit in these conversations. Remember, we're talking 300+ miles of range in the future, so they've been in the car at least 4 hours. They get some food, they go to the bathroom, they stretch their legs. By the time that all happens, it's probably been 10-15 minutes. So we're talking about another 15 minutes of chilling out. This will drive some people mad, but most people aren't going to mind.

    I realize Americans largely think being inconvenienced in any way is basically someone declaring war on them, but some things are going to slow down. It's going to be forced on us by the natural limits of the planet. It doesn't have to be an unpleasant thing.

    My guess is rest stops / gas stations will evolve to make those small bits of charging time more pleasant, with entertainment options and so forth.
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  14. #25
    I wear Elly colored glass WrongVerb's Avatar
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    I look forward to the day I subscribe to an autonomous automobile service rather than owning my own car. In fact, I am expecting the next car I purchase to be my last.
    Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. -- Carl Sagan (Pale Blue Dot)

  15. #26
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    I look forward to the day I subscribe to an autonomous automobile service rather than owning my own car. In fact, I am expecting the next car I purchase to be my last.
    Same. But I no longer expect my next car to be my last (expect to buy late this year). The whole thing is moving somewhat slower than I'd hoped. I think the tech can move pretty fast. I think the regulatory state is going to be SLOW.

  16. #27
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    Once the charging tech is good enough I don't think it's going to bother people that much to stop and charge for 30 minutes every 4+ hours. I fully realize that will sound crazy to some people, but I think this for two reasons:

    - It's a small bit of time for all the benefits of an electric car, and I'm not talking about just environmental. They are more fun to drive, they are way cheaper to run, they break down less.

    - On long roadtrips, people take longer to pump gas than they want to admit in these conversations. Remember, we're talking 300+ miles of range in the future, so they've been in the car at least 4 hours. They get some food, they go to the bathroom, they stretch their legs. By the time that all happens, it's probably been 10-15 minutes. So we're talking about another 15 minutes of chilling out. This will drive some people mad, but most people aren't going to mind.

    I realize Americans largely think being inconvenienced in any way is basically someone declaring war on them, but some things are going to slow down. It's going to be forced on us by the natural limits of the planet. It doesn't have to be an unpleasant thing.

    My guess is rest stops / gas stations will evolve to make those small bits of charging time more pleasant, with entertainment options and so forth.
    I hope this is all incredibly wrong. Perhaps WV's battery trading service will be an option if it's that slow. We treat our road trip stops like a NASCAR pit crew. We even pack sandwiches to avoid the slowdown of getting food. Now, once we get autonomous, it matters less, because if I can sleep or watch Netflix the whole trip, no big deal if it takes a few more minutes to charge.

  17. #28
    Member kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    Once the charging tech is good enough I don't think it's going to bother people that much to stop and charge for 30 minutes every 4+ hours. I fully realize that will sound crazy to some people, but I think this for two reasons:

    - It's a small bit of time for all the benefits of an electric car, and I'm not talking about just environmental. They are more fun to drive, they are way cheaper to run, they break down less.

    - On long roadtrips, people take longer to pump gas than they want to admit in these conversations. Remember, we're talking 300+ miles of range in the future, so they've been in the car at least 4 hours. They get some food, they go to the bathroom, they stretch their legs. By the time that all happens, it's probably been 10-15 minutes. So we're talking about another 15 minutes of chilling out. This will drive some people mad, but most people aren't going to mind.

    I realize Americans largely think being inconvenienced in any way is basically someone declaring war on them, but some things are going to slow down. It's going to be forced on us by the natural limits of the planet. It doesn't have to be an unpleasant thing.

    My guess is rest stops / gas stations will evolve to make those small bits of charging time more pleasant, with entertainment options and so forth.
    Yes it does.

  18. #29
    Member BernieCarbo's Avatar
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    Once the charging tech is good enough I don't think it's going to bother people that much to stop and charge for 30 minutes every 4+ hours. I fully realize that will sound crazy to some people, but I think this for two reasons:

    - It's a small bit of time for all the benefits of an electric car, and I'm not talking about just environmental. They are more fun to drive, they are way cheaper to run, they break down less.

    - On long roadtrips, people take longer to pump gas than they want to admit in these conversations. Remember, we're talking 300+ miles of range in the future, so they've been in the car at least 4 hours. They get some food, they go to the bathroom, they stretch their legs. By the time that all happens, it's probably been 10-15 minutes. So we're talking about another 15 minutes of chilling out. This will drive some people mad, but most people aren't going to mind.

    I realize Americans largely think being inconvenienced in any way is basically someone declaring war on them, but some things are going to slow down. It's going to be forced on us by the natural limits of the planet. It doesn't have to be an unpleasant thing.

    My guess is rest stops / gas stations will evolve to make those small bits of charging time more pleasant, with entertainment options and so forth.
    It’s actually a moot point. Auto manufacturers know that current lithium battery technology will go the way of the dinosaur quite soon. The next generation, probably solid state batteries, will be able to be charged in minutes and will have far more range. This isn’t just a theoretical exercise- A colleague of mine is one of the top engineers in the battery division of one of the big three, and they are investing big time in the solid state batteries. Both Toyota and some Chinese companies are doing the same thing. This will happen full scale within five years, with limited availability within a year.

  19. #30
    Member Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: GM building an all-electric-vehicle plant in Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Yes it does.
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