Just one more acquisition...

[Bourgeois Zee]

So he chose to play for the Reds for such a low amount because other teams were high on him? Maybe he had a lot of offers for scrap heap money. Some may have been minor league deals.

Maybe.

None of us knows.

And yeah, players choose to play for less money and less guaranteed money in order to win championships/ chase pennants quite often.

Pretending that the market is the ultimate decider of value is absurd.

Employing the point after being explained its absurdity is likely why you were treated poorly.

In short, you know better.

[RedTeamGo!]

So he chose to play for the Reds for such a low amount because other teams were high on him? Maybe he had a lot of offers for scrap heap money. Some may have been minor league deals. The fact remains that the market for a reliever that people are counting on fixing the pen is way more than the Reds signed him for. Teams get bargains all the time. I hope that is the case here. Still, if the word around baseball was that he was a strong option to fix their pen, he would have cost more than what the Reds paid. I think that collective knowledge should be listened to.

I hope you guys are right. I think the Reds have done enough this winter to legitimately contend. I'd hate to see that undermined because they went cheap on the bullpen. This team lost a ton of games in the late innings last year. Some of that was on the offense which they've addressed pretty well IMO. A lot was on the bullpen. I don't think Strop is viewed as a guy who really addresses that based on how the market reacted to his availability.

You are free to think what you want. But get all pissy with other posters will ya.

Mth: makes absolute statement

Other: prove it

Mth: nah

Other: provide article proving original statement by mth is 100% wrong

Mth: stop being pissy

Lol.

[mth123]

Maybe.

None of us knows.

And yeah, players choose to play for less money and less guaranteed money in order to win championships/ chase pennants quite often.

Pretending that the market is the ultimate decider of value is absurd.

Employing the point after being explained its absurdity is likely why you were treated poorly.

In short, you know better.

Of course nobody on here knows anything for certain. Interpreting the information we have available to us is part of what we do here. IMO, his low contract is part of that information. If he was a guy who plays a loaded position, I'd get it, but every team has 8 bullpen spots now and nobody has 8 solid relievers. IMO, somebody would have signed him to a better deal if the general feeling in the game about him was that he's a solid 8th inning guy. The Reds are bucking the general wisdom that the market is indicating. Something they should do when they are rebuilding and trying to stumble on talent. When trying to win, they should go for more certainty IMO.

I hope they found somebody in Strop. The Reds have subtracted a ton of bad innings from the pen in Hernandez, Hughes, Peralta, Gausman and hopefully Romano. We've seen in the past that isn't enough if those innings aren't replaced with quality. If its just new set of question marks who live down to the level of the guys subtracted, that addition by subtraction isn't really an improvement. We saw that in the rotation for several years. The market doesn't seem high on Strop. IMO, that makes him a question. All relievers are questions, but somebody else who is generally considered an answer is what they need to get this year while trying to contend. IMO, it's worth paying for.

[Bourgeois Zee]

One does not lead from the other, as evidenced by the posts above yours.

[Griffey012]

I’d just like to point out that in another thread when MTH finally threw out some names of these relievers the Reds could look to add to help “fix” the pen. He mentioned two guys coming off arguably worse years than Strop (Watson, Givens), a guy who is hated in his own clubhouse (Kela), a guy who has been very up and down in his career (Ken Giles), and an overpaid washed up starter who found success in the bullpen last year (Ian Kennedy).

Yet our guys who fit the same molds sans Kela, are all going to stink and leave us with a terrible pen that the Reds must address by adding more of the same. Giles could very well be elite again, but it’s not like he is a guarantee either.

[mth123]

I’d just like to point out that in another thread when MTH finally threw out some names of these relievers the Reds could look to add to help “fix” the pen. He mentioned two guys coming off arguably worse years than Strop (Watson, Givens), a guy who is hated in his own clubhouse (Kela), a guy who has been very up and down in his career (Ken Giles), and an overpaid washed up starter who found success in the bullpen last year (Ian Kennedy).

Yet our guys who fit the same molds sans Kela, are all going to stink and leave us with a terrible pen that the Reds must address by adding more of the same. Giles could very well be elite again, but it’s not like he is a guarantee either.

Nowhere did I say those guys would stink. I said they are unproven and I wouldn't put them in a high leverage situation and that the Reds are short on trustworthy guys. All the guys I pointed out have a history of success in the late innings and had better seasons than Strop last year. I'd only want Watson as a lefty, which is something the Reds don't really have, as compared to Strop who is similar to many of the Reds other questions. BTW, Watson had an ERA+ of 101 last year which puts him about league average. Not a world beater, but compared to Strop's 90, he was quite a bit more successful. Given that Watson is a lefty, I'd say he's clearly a better target. I also said I wouldn't give much for Givens either, but he also had an ERA+ of 104 which is a 15% improvement over the 90 Strop put up. Kennedy and Giles were reliable closers last year. Kela has been pretty dominant when healthy. I'd trust any of those three with a lead over most of the pitchers on the Reds roster.

Again, we have a lot of conjecture about Strop, but the reality is nobody thought he was worth $2 Million which is basically scrap heap money. I put more stock in what the other 29 Teams did than I do some rumor that there was a lot of interest in him. There simply wasn't. Anybody could have had him. The Reds got him for basically nothing. That tells me a lot.

The Reds have done well this winter, but its mostly been by paying for what they need. I'm not ready to say that they are smarter than the rest of the front offices around the game and clearly nobody valued Strop all that much. I trust that more than I think the Reds having some vision nobody else has.

I just don't get it. This is obviously a scrap heap signing. Why do we want that? They're trying to win now. Why mess around? The pen lost a ton of games last year. The team was terrible, so it really didn't matter. This year they look like a contender and games lost in relief will matter a lot. Go fix it. Pay for a solution.

[Wonderful Monds]

I definitely do think Strop is a scrap heap guy, he’s getting older and relievers can go quick. But it’s a good scrap heap signing, 2 million for a guy with his upside is a pretty solid move. I just also think it’s as likely he’ll blow up as it is he’ll pitch well.

And I do think they need a Ken Giles type still.

[Kc61]

Strop had at least two IL stays last season. The Reds must have concluded that 2019 was not a fair test due to injuries. It’s very possible and we should presume Reds did some due diligence before they signed Strop.

I’d like another high end reliever but teams do add those at the trade deadline. The Reds have been very active and I’m ok with taking some bullpen risk at this point.

IMO Reds are still in the market for infield and bullpen, but it’s not an All Star team, some areas will be more uncertain than others.

[mth123]

I definitely do think Strop is a scrap heap guy, he’s getting older and relievers can go quick. But it’s a good scrap heap signing, 2 million for a guy with his upside is a pretty solid move. I just also think it’s as likely he’ll blow up as it is he’ll pitch well.

And I do think they need a Ken Giles type still.

Its all I'm saying. If Strop is just a guy for the mix, Meh, which is what I said in my original post about his signing. If he's supposed to be the solution, well, its not good enough.

[Kc61]

Its all I'm saying. If Strop is just a guy for the mix, Meh, which is what I said in my original post about his signing. If he's supposed to be the solution, well, its not good enough.

I can’t buy this one. Strop has been an excellent reliever. I hated when he faced the Reds.

He had at least two IL stays last year, including a May Grade 2 hamstring strain. Hamstrings can be lingering injuries especially if you don’t give them the full measure of rest and recovery.

He is a bounce back candidate but, unlike the MILB deals Reds usually sign, he’s a good major leaguer with one bad, injured year. He’s not just a guy “for the mix.”

[mth123]

I can’t buy this one. Strop has been an excellent reliever. I hated when he faced the Reds.

He had at least two IL stays last year, including a May Grade 2 hamstring strain. Hamstrings can be lingering injuries especially if you don’t give them the full measure of rest and recovery.

He is a bounce back candidate but, unlike the MILB deals Reds usually sign, he’s a good major leaguer with one bad, injured year. He’s not just a guy “for the mix.”

Why was he available for so cheap? Every team the Reds are competing with could use Strop at even 75% of his best. Why are the Reds the only team that thought he was worth a cheap $1.85 Million? I just think the Market knows more about him than we do and the Market didn't seem to like him. I think you get what you pay for. This winter the Reds have seemed willing to pay for what they need. They didn't really pay much for Strop. If he's the old Strop its a great signing, but I'm not optimistic that he solves the problem. The Dodgers, Cardinals, Cubs, Brewers, Phillies, Mets, D-Backs and Braves could all use a bounce back Strop. That's just the NL. Yet nobody would even pay 2 Million. Guys get more on minor league deals. Nobody else stepped up. That tells me more than any of the numbers people are looking at on here.

[Kc61]

Why was he available for so cheap? Every team the Reds are competing with could use Strop at even 75% of his best. Why are the Reds the only team that thought he was worth a cheap $1.85 Million? I just think the Market knows more about him than we do and the Market didn't seem to like him. I think you get what you pay for. This winter the Reds have seemed willing to pay for what they need. They didn't really pay much for Strop. If he's the old Strop its a great signing, but I'm not optimistic that he solves the problem. The Dodgers, Cardinals, Cubs, Brewers, Phillies, Mets, D-Backs and Braves could all use a bounce back Strop. That's just the NL. Yet nobody would even pay 2 Million. Guys get more on minor league deals. Nobody else stepped up. That tells me more than any of the numbers people are looking at on here.

Let’s try not to misstate Strop’s contract. There’s been a fair amount of that in the posts.

He has $1.825 million guaranteed by Reds. But he can earn another $1.625 million in incentive bonuses. Some of those incentives are for games pitched (easier), some require him to finish games (tougher).

We don’t know how much other teams offered; but Strop, if healthy and confident, might have opted for the Reds’ $3.5 million total package over, say, a lower $2 millions flat guarantee from someone else.

There are many good relievers who earn in those dollar ranges, not trivial dollars for a guy coming off an injury plagued season.

[kaldaniels]

Like I would entertain so many dissenting views to this signing. Relievers are a volatile crowd.

But to knock it on the basis of "no other team felt he was worth 1.85 (or whatever) million)" is an odd way of doing so and I can't get behind that.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020-...ntract_years-1

There are many relievers here in the 1-2 million range I'd have loved the Reds to take a shot on. They are all risky but that's the nature of the beast.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Why was he available for so cheap? Every team the Reds are competing with could use Strop at even 75% of his best. Why are the Reds the only team that thought he was worth a cheap $1.85 Million? I just think the Market knows more about him than we do and the Market didn't seem to like him. I think you get what you pay for. This winter the Reds have seemed willing to pay for what they need. They didn't really pay much for Strop. If he's the old Strop its a great signing, but I'm not optimistic that he solves the problem. The Dodgers, Cardinals, Cubs, Brewers, Phillies, Mets, D-Backs and Braves could all use a bounce back Strop. That's just the NL. Yet nobody would even pay 2 Million. Guys get more on minor league deals. Nobody else stepped up. That tells me more than any of the numbers people are looking at on here.

This has already been discussed.

[SomeCallMeTim]

Reed has the stuff to be a very good LH option with Garrett. His health is all I worry about, not his stuff. I worry more about Iglesias getting back to consistency.

Still, the Nats won with a far inferior BP than what we have on paper going in this year. No need to add more mediocrity from the outside.