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Thread: Just one more acquisition...

  1. #46
    Member mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by SomeCallMeTim View Post
    Reed has the stuff to be a very good LH option with Garrett. His health is all I worry about, not his stuff. I worry more about Iglesias getting back to consistency.

    Still, the Nats won with a far inferior BP than what we have on paper going in this year. No need to add more mediocrity from the outside.
    Wandy Peralta had good stuff too. Just sayin.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!


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  3. #47
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Wandy Peralta had good stuff too. Just sayin.
    May I ask you what your obsession with Tony Watson is? He is old and had an awful year last year. Wouldn't that be the same thing as Pedro Strop?
    Crazy Reds Fan

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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Its all I'm saying. If Strop is just a guy for the mix, Meh, which is what I said in my original post about his signing. If he's supposed to be the solution, well, its not good enough.
    Your solutions aren’t really solutions though. What makes a solution?
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  5. #49
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Like I would entertain so many dissenting views to this signing. Relievers are a volatile crowd.

    But to knock it on the basis of "no other team felt he was worth 1.85 (or whatever) million)" is an odd way of doing so and I can't get behind that.

    https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020-...ntract_years-1

    There are many relievers here in the 1-2 million range I'd have loved the Reds to take a shot on. They are all risky but that's the nature of the beast.
    Nah, you can easily acquire one of the twenty or so relievers who are consistently good. Not a rare breed or anything.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  6. #50
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Nowhere did I say those guys would stink. I said they are unproven and I wouldn't put them in a high leverage situation and that the Reds are short on trustworthy guys. All the guys I pointed out have a history of success in the late innings and had better seasons than Strop last year. I'd only want Watson as a lefty, which is something the Reds don't really have, as compared to Strop who is similar to many of the Reds other questions. BTW, Watson had an ERA+ of 101 last year which puts him about league average. Not a world beater, but compared to Strop's 90, he was quite a bit more successful. Given that Watson is a lefty, I'd say he's clearly a better target. I also said I wouldn't give much for Givens either, but he also had an ERA+ of 104 which is a 15% improvement over the 90 Strop put up. Kennedy and Giles were reliable closers last year. Kela has been pretty dominant when healthy. I'd trust any of those three with a lead over most of the pitchers on the Reds roster.

    Again, we have a lot of conjecture about Strop, but the reality is nobody thought he was worth $2 Million which is basically scrap heap money. I put more stock in what the other 29 Teams did than I do some rumor that there was a lot of interest in him. There simply wasn't. Anybody could have had him. The Reds got him for basically nothing. That tells me a lot.

    The Reds have done well this winter, but its mostly been by paying for what they need. I'm not ready to say that they are smarter than the rest of the front offices around the game and clearly nobody valued Strop all that much. I trust that more than I think the Reds having some vision nobody else has.

    I just don't get it. This is obviously a scrap heap signing. Why do we want that? They're trying to win now. Why mess around? The pen lost a ton of games last year. The team was terrible, so it really didn't matter. This year they look like a contender and games lost in relief will matter a lot. Go fix it. Pay for a solution.
    Okay, you’re list isn’t really trustworthy either. Scrap heaps get minor league deals.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  7. #51
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Is adding a lefty as important now?

    Since pitchers need to throw to 3 batters or till the inning ends. Im not sure we are going to see a ton of match ups so much. You need guys who can get players on both sides out now, not just a guy who can only get a lefty out. Because if he comes in and doesnt do it then he has to face that righty who hammers lefty pitching.

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  9. #52
    Member mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolando View Post
    May I ask you what your obsession with Tony Watson is? He is old and had an awful year last year. Wouldn't that be the same thing as Pedro Strop?
    Not a huge obsession. The Reds need a lefty. Garrett is good, but he fell apart last season from overwork. Reed might be OK, but he might get overexposed. People seem to be putting a lot of faith in a few innings. Big league hitters have been beating him since 2016. I want a third lefty in the pen as an alternative. A veteran who has had success before. I think people are exaggerating his year last year. His ERA+ was 101 which is average. He doesn't walk guys the way Strop does. He's not a world beater, but compared to Strop, he had a better year and he's left handed. If they got Watson, I'd still want somebody else better as well. I'm only interested in him because he's left handed and I don't want to see Garrett overused again. I'd rather have a better lefty, but I don't see any who might be available.

    I am encouraged that Strop seems to get lefty hitters out. Maybe that will be good enough to keep Garrett from getting overworked. .
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

  10. #53
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Your solutions aren’t really solutions though. What makes a solution?
    Ken Giles is a solution. Ian Kennedy is a solution. Keone Kela is a potential solution if he's healthy. I agree that Givens and Watson would only be partial solutions, and I'd still want somebody better even if they had gotten one, but both had better years than Strop last year. Significantly better. There's probably somebody else out there, but those were guys off the top of my head who I prefer to Strop. Watson could easily be this year's version of Zach Duke, and the new rules may make him less useful, but I'm not satisfied with Reed as the only lefty alternative to Garrett. It's all about not seeing a repeat of Garrett falling apart again from overuse.

    A solution is a guy who is an established high leverage reliever who had a solid year last year. Giles is my first choice. Of course I'd rather have Hader or Chapman, but they aren't getting those guys. I'd just as soon go with Kuhnel, Sims or even Bowman over Strop and I don't really want any of those guys in important spots at the beginning of the season. To me Strop is in the mix with those guys.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

  11. #54
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Not a huge obsession. The Reds need a lefty. Garrett is good, but he fell apart last season from overwork. Reed might be OK, but he might get overexposed. People seem to be putting a lot of faith in a few innings. Big league hitters have been beating him since 2016. I want a third lefty in the pen as an alternative. A veteran who has had success before. I think people are exaggerating his year last year. His ERA+ was 101 which is average. He doesn't walk guys the way Strop does. He's not a world beater, but compared to Strop, he had a better year and he's left handed. If they got Watson, I'd still want somebody else better as well. I'm only interested in him because he's left handed and I don't want to see Garrett overused again. I'd rather have a better lefty, but I don't see any who might be available.

    I am encouraged that Strop seems to get lefty hitters out. Maybe that will be good enough to keep Garrett from getting overworked. .
    Tony Watson was terrible last year and may well be done.

    His OPS against LH hitters was above .900 last year.

    He’s a LOOGY that can’t get out lefties.

    And you want him to be our latex salesman.


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  13. #55
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Ken Giles is a solution. Ian Kennedy is a solution. Keone Kela is a potential solution if he's healthy. I agree that Givens and Watson would only be partial solutions, and I'd still want somebody better even if they had gotten one, but both had better years than Strop last year. Significantly better. There's probably somebody else out there, but those were guys off the top of my head who I prefer to Strop. Watson could easily be this year's version of Zach Duke, and the new rules may make him less useful, but I'm not satisfied with Reed as the only lefty alternative to Garrett. It's all about not seeing a repeat of Garrett falling apart again from overuse.

    A solution is a guy who is an established high leverage reliever who had a solid year last year. Giles is my first choice. Of course I'd rather have Hader or Chapman, but they aren't getting those guys. I'd just as soon go with Kuhnel, Sims or even Bowman over Strop and I don't really want any of those guys in important spots at the beginning of the season. To me Strop is in the mix with those guys.
    You can't say "A solution is a guy who is an established high leverage reliever who had a solid year last year." yet also call Givens and Watson partial solutions, unless of course Strop is also a partial solution, but then there's no real complaint about Strop. After all it just isn't true that "Watson and Givens had significantly better seasons than Strop last year". In what aspect did Watson and Givens have "significantly better" seasons than Strop? They all three had pretty pedestrian years. I'm also not sure it is even fair to call Kennedy an established high leverage reliever. He is 35 and last year was his first season in the bullpen. I've said elsewhere I'd gladly add him into the late innings, but I wouldn't suddenly expect his arrival to "fix" anything. It would improve the pen barring surprisingly poor performance, but it isn't going to generate some dramatic improvement.

    Watson got pummeled by lefties last year, even with the perks of pitching in the NL west. He had iffy numbers and a high HR rate. Zach Duke is probably an apt comparison. I feel much more confident with Reed over a 34 year old coming off that kind of season.

    Giles would be a welcome addition, but I have no idea what the cost would be, likely high. If that's the case, I'd rather roll the dice and make a move early if the bullpen is an issue.

    Which guy fits better in GABP? And which guy was better last season?:

    Player A: 6.8 K/9, 2.0 BB/9, 1.5 HR/9, 44% GB
    Player B: 10.6 K/9, 4.3 BB/9, 1.3 HR/9, 53% GB
    Player C: 12.3 K/9, 3.7 BB/9, 1.9 HR/9, 38% GB
    Last edited by Griffey012; 02-03-2020 at 09:06 AM.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  14. #56
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Mth's whole argument boils down to "I don't like Strop because *reasons*."

    No big deal. We all have those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Which guy fits better in GABP? And which guy was better last season?:

    Player A: 6.8 K/9, 2.0 BB/9, 1.5 HR/9, 44% GB
    Player B: 10.6 K/9, 4.3 BB/9, 1.3 HR/9, 53% GB
    Player C: 12.3 K/9, 3.7 BB/9, 1.9 HR/9, 38% GB
    That's a good question.

    I like number three due to elite K and BB numbers, but that fly ball percentage. Woof.

    I'd need to look at WHiP, career numbers, and last three seasons numbers before making a decision.

  15. #57
    Member kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Why is Ian Kennedy a poster boy for a quality, dependable reliever?

    He had a good 2019, that's true.

    https://www.fangraphs.com/players/ia...ats?position=P

  16. #58
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Why is Ian Kennedy a poster boy for a quality, dependable reliever?

    He had a good 2019, that's true.

    https://www.fangraphs.com/players/ia...ats?position=P
    And at $14M for this season, perhaps he could be ours!!


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  17. #59
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Why is Ian Kennedy a poster boy for a quality, dependable reliever?

    He had a good 2019, that's true.

    https://www.fangraphs.com/players/ia...ats?position=P
    With a WHIP higher than Pedro Strop in 2019.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  18. #60
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    Re: Just one more acquisition...

    With Strop, there are five guys I consider locks for the bullpen. Leaves three spots.

    Reds have a pretty good list of unproven and bounce back candidates for the three spots. Several relievers who did well before an injury are interesting.

    I would like one more bigger ticket reliever, but it’s not essential, there is talent to be mined by DJ and the staff.

    I’m more interested at this point in getting a Brock Holt type for the infield. I’ve posted previously about the OF/IF imbalance and I’d rather see that addressed.
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-03-2020 at 11:46 AM.


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